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Old 04-03-2014, 10:06 PM
 
Location: honolulu
1,729 posts, read 1,272,383 times
Reputation: 443

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
And you think the Swiss are going to burn their relationship with the U.S. to help you out?

Good luck with that.

And even if for some reason they did, that wouldn't do anything important for you.
One nation at a time...... Mahalo.. Brah!!!

 
Old 04-03-2014, 10:10 PM
 
Location: honolulu
1,729 posts, read 1,272,383 times
Reputation: 443
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldawg82 View Post
Yep (to all of your points). This rant that many "Native" Americans get on is so full of baloney. There is not a single tribe or group of people (any where on this planet) that did not displace or conquer someone else in order to occupy a piece of land. Then they have the audacity to call themselves "native".
its funny how a Us citizen calls everyone else immigrants... and some how they're not. I agree to some of your statement.

However.... in relation to Hawaii and the US there was a treaty...
 
Old 04-03-2014, 10:59 PM
 
Location: honolulu
1,729 posts, read 1,272,383 times
Reputation: 443
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post
Good luck with that. But don't you think your efforts would better be spent on something productive? Or is it easier to be an internet activist?

You and about 3 dozen other separatist types claim to have a monopoly on "education"... stand in line.

But-for their internal sectarian violence and power struggles, both places would be far freer and prosperous places today, because the US has no and had no designs on annexing either place.

We would have liked to have been gone entirely from both places years ago.


"Native" Americans and Hawaiians need to address the real grievances they have, but get off the high horse and understand that what the "Americans" did is nothing different than what any other cultures (including their own) have done to other cultures since the beginning of time. Any student of OBJECTIVE history would know this.
I can't comment on the Native americans or what they need. I know of the many atrocities that they had survived.

The Hawaiian on the other hand I can address. You Sir? claim the "Americans" did. Yes, they did in too many ways to the Hawaiian their land, culture and Kingdom.. no objective history needed here just the true accounts of history. not the objective American side.. as you speak, but the truth about how the US's imperialist ways.
I have no monopoly on education..... I offer you the truth... "YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH"

My efforts are fine here... lol I get the monopoly on educating the uneducated... you.

would have liked to left both places years ago... thats a.... ahhh?? I got it objective historians point of view. Now tell me. what difference did you make there... I mean you did leave a good impression? I know you left allot of dead people. most important, you left the petrodollar.

When you talk... "internal sectarian violence and power struggles, both places would be far freer and prosperous places today" isn't that the same as.... "nothing different than what any other cultures (including their own) have done to other cultures since the beginning of time. Any student of OBJECTIVE history would know this."

so.... they good now.... ryte...

Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post

The advantage native cultures have? No real written records to account for the voices which may have been lost over thousands of years through oppression by other native cultures.

Honestly, its only recent that we don't think such empire building and land grabbing is appropriate. Very recent. Which is why when Putin is doing it in 2014, it's VASTLY a different circumstance than when the US empire built in the 1800s. Nobody does that anymore. Very out of fashion since.... oh.... the 1930s.
Native cultures have.... well with the Help of the (as you say other native culture) US's oppression much of the Native Hawaiian culture had been lost, Oleleo is making a come back as well as the truth to the overthrow and the education we as Hawaiians need to get our Aina back.

Putin is doing no different that what the US did to Hawaii. well.... I take that back they didn't imprison the Queen.... they didn't apologize for the illegal overthrow

No one does it anymore... so?? what happen in Libya? Iraq? Afghanistan? you stopped short of syria... why?


Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7 View Post

Very.

And so are you. The only reason you even *get* to have a free and open opposition against the US government is because you happened to get annexed at the tail end of empirism, at the hands of a culture that tolerates such open opposition and criticism.

Good luck with that if Putin was in charge.
When is Putin going to be in charge? I do think he has good points.

the only reason..... "I" have... its not opposition its what is right making it right. Bill Clinton apologized. make it right..... Right... Ryte!!!!

It was annexed.. illegally... I am free... lol NDAA and the Patriot Act says other wise.

A culture that supports open opposition and criticism... if your talking about the US. You need help.. hint... "SNOWDEN" the US wanted to shut his ass up soo fast. he did the smart thing.. Putin you say... Ahhhh!! Aloha Ka kou
 
Old 04-03-2014, 11:14 PM
 
9,897 posts, read 6,819,097 times
Reputation: 2519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldawg82 View Post
The world is a smaller place and needs to adhere to treaties and international law.
Did the US violate international law when they invaded Iraq?
That seems very much the present, not dwelling on the past at all, don't you think...

Jeff Sachs: Iraq War ‘Much More Serious Violation of International Law’ Than Crimea Invasion | Mediaite

“After all, that was an unprovoked war by the United States, completely opposed inside the United Nations without U.N. sanction, ended up with at least 100,000 Iraqis dead. I would argue, a much more serious violation of international law than this.”
 
Old 04-04-2014, 06:54 AM
 
Location: In a Galaxy far, far away called Germany
4,284 posts, read 3,717,817 times
Reputation: 2333
Quote:
Originally Posted by pollyrobin View Post
Did the US violate international law when they invaded Iraq?
That seems very much the present, not dwelling on the past at all, don't you think...

Jeff Sachs: Iraq War ‘Much More Serious Violation of International Law’ Than Crimea Invasion | Mediaite

“After all, that was an unprovoked war by the United States, completely opposed inside the United Nations without U.N. sanction, ended up with at least 100,000 Iraqis dead. I would argue, a much more serious violation of international law than this.”
Although I do not think the USA/UK led forces should have invaded Iraq, whether International law was violated (or not) was/is up to debate. Most certainly, nothing like what is going on in Crimea (with "Self-Defense" forces with tanks that instantly popped up but are really just Russians in uniform with patches removed). Here is the Wiki page on the whole debate as to whether international law was violated by the dozen (or so) nations that were involved in the Iraqi invasion: Legality of the Iraq War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Old 04-04-2014, 08:25 AM
 
Location: OKC
5,426 posts, read 5,708,445 times
Reputation: 1770
Quote:
Originally Posted by pollyrobin View Post
Did the US violate international law when they invaded Iraq?
That seems very much the present, not dwelling on the past at all, don't you think...

Jeff Sachs: Iraq War ‘Much More Serious Violation of International Law’ Than Crimea Invasion | Mediaite

“After all, that was an unprovoked war by the United States, completely opposed inside the United Nations without U.N. sanction, ended up with at least 100,000 Iraqis dead. I would argue, a much more serious violation of international law than this.”
The U.S. was acting under a UN resolution 1441 as authorization for the attack. People are rewritting history on that now.
 
Old 04-04-2014, 10:11 AM
 
Location: honolulu
1,729 posts, read 1,272,383 times
Reputation: 443
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
The U.S. was acting under a UN resolution 1441 as authorization for the attack. People are rewritting history on that now.
lol objective history.... 1441..... its an excuse. not a reason

kammon mon... ya aint got something better
 
Old 04-04-2014, 10:12 AM
 
Location: honolulu
1,729 posts, read 1,272,383 times
Reputation: 443
Quote:
Originally Posted by pollyrobin View Post
Did the US violate international law when they invaded Iraq?
That seems very much the present, not dwelling on the past at all, don't you think...

Jeff Sachs: Iraq War ‘Much More Serious Violation of International Law’ Than Crimea Invasion | Mediaite

“After all, that was an unprovoked war by the United States, completely opposed inside the United Nations without U.N. sanction, ended up with at least 100,000 Iraqis dead. I would argue, a much more serious violation of international law than this.”
great post
 
Old 04-04-2014, 10:15 AM
 
Location: honolulu
1,729 posts, read 1,272,383 times
Reputation: 443
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldawg82 View Post
Although I do not think the USA/UK led forces should have invaded Iraq, whether International law was violated (or not) was/is up to debate. Most certainly, nothing like what is going on in Crimea (with "Self-Defense" forces with tanks that instantly popped up but are really just Russians in uniform with patches removed). Here is the Wiki page on the whole debate as to whether international law was violated by the dozen (or so) nations that were involved in the Iraqi invasion: Legality of the Iraq War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
you don't have to think about this one... the facts are proof enough. let it happen in the international court of law.... if the US ever shows up.

Russia was there too look after the safety of their peoples.... thats the reason. not an excuse lol
 
Old 04-04-2014, 11:05 AM
 
Location: In a Galaxy far, far away called Germany
4,284 posts, read 3,717,817 times
Reputation: 2333
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kawena View Post
you don't have to think about this one... the facts are proof enough. let it happen in the international court of law.... if the US ever shows up.

Russia was there too look after the safety of their peoples.... thats the reason. not an excuse lol
Russia was there to look after the safety of their peoples? Really? So every country that has Russian ethnic is now supposed to allow the Russian Federation to spring up "Self-Defense" forces? Your reasoning is neither sound nor well thought out. The Russians simply wanted Crimea for their own purposes. They seek "buffer states" between them and NATO encroachment. The Kremlin is now debating whether they have the means/will/and resolve to enter the Eastern Ukraine (40,000 troops are awaiting their decision) and if they are willing to suffer the consequences (for there will be consequences whether they succeed or not). And as for an international court of law, one was never brought up (or attempted to bring up). I didn't support the Iraq war, but to say one is like the other is to be short sighted as very rarely are two situations (in this case - war) the same.
But, regardless - all these 20th century military ventures need to stop. The world is getting smaller and more intertwined - economically and socially. There needs to be a new way that both NATO, Russia, China and everyone else adheres to in order to solve such disputes.
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