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Old 03-26-2014, 05:25 PM
 
Location: Decatur, GA
5,254 posts, read 4,005,422 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
Why waste money on empty buses? This happens a lot in the area where I live. 3 cities within half an hour of each other, with empty suburban buses, but urban buses that are being used. This is pissing money down the drain. So, yes, I want public transit to be decentralized, and actually useful. Pubnlic transit these days are trying to target suburban drivers to ditch their cars. Give them a reason to! A bus going from Maple Oak Dr. down to Downtown Ave. is not going to be useful if that bus goes past the Kroger's or Regal Cinema. Yes, decentralize it. If people wanted to go downtown, they would go. They aren't.
They aren't because they currently can't! Give them a way to get downtown and they'll go there. They may still need to drive around their suburban area, but that's far more manageable. What you're wanting however is for everything to go everywhere which really would **** money down the drain. Centralize the system on downtown and suddenly you have a focus that can be served a a few dedicated high-capacity routes.
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Old 03-26-2014, 05:25 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,054 posts, read 29,425,983 times
Reputation: 7829
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
Not to mention having your car fitted with GPS trackers and license plate readers everywhere seems very Orwellian to me. You know, one of the favorite words of the Right? But, somehow, being tracked by private corporations wherever you go is ok.
Obviously tracking every road we drive on would need to be done by GPS tracking so we can be properly charged for the roads we drive on.
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Old 03-26-2014, 05:31 PM
 
25,059 posts, read 23,090,543 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Obviously tracking every road we drive on would need to be done by GPS tracking so we can be properly charged for the roads we drive on.
Just watch, they're gonna be for it before they are against it. They're waiting until a Democrat likes the idea, to later blame them for wanting to have government control of our lives or hand over control of our lives to their corporate friends

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattCW View Post
They aren't because they currently can't! Give them a way to get downtown and they'll go there. They may still need to drive around their suburban area, but that's far more manageable. What you're wanting however is for everything to go everywhere which really would **** money down the drain. Centralize the system on downtown and suddenly you have a focus that can be served a a few dedicated high-capacity routes.
That may work for a major metropolitan area like Atlanta (heck, don't suburbanites in Marietta, Peach Tree City, etc., skip downtown for most things anyway), but it's a failure where I live. I live in a tri-city area with about 50k each city separated by 30 miles each one; nobody goes downtown unless it's to the bar or baseball game. So how about the majority of us, who don't live around Philadelphia, Atlanta, Houston, Baltimore, etc., what are we supposed to do? Give up on getting people to move downtown. It's not working, that ship has sailed already. Until inner city schools start receiving rave reviews and high test scores, you are NOT going to see people moving downtown with families.
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Old 03-26-2014, 06:28 PM
 
Location: Youngstown, Oh.
4,885 posts, read 7,629,814 times
Reputation: 4505
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
Just watch, they're gonna be for it before they are against it. They're waiting until a Democrat likes the idea, to later blame them for wanting to have government control of our lives or hand over control of our lives to their corporate friends



That may work for a major metropolitan area like Atlanta (heck, don't suburbanites in Marietta, Peach Tree City, etc., skip downtown for most things anyway), but it's a failure where I live. I live in a tri-city area with about 50k each city separated by 30 miles each one; nobody goes downtown unless it's to the bar or baseball game. So how about the majority of us, who don't live around Philadelphia, Atlanta, Houston, Baltimore, etc., what are we supposed to do? Give up on getting people to move downtown. It's not working, that ship has sailed already. Until inner city schools start receiving rave reviews and high test scores, you are NOT going to see people moving downtown with families.
Within the last few years, 3 underutilized office buildings in downtown Youngstown were converted to high-end residential apartments. (there are 2 more that are currently being converted) Each one was filled within 6 months of opening.



Most transit systems can't eliminate their less-used routes, because then they would be accused of collecting funding from areas without providing service to that area.
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Old 03-26-2014, 06:31 PM
 
Location: Houston
22,395 posts, read 11,530,756 times
Reputation: 9010
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
Just watch, they're gonna be for it before they are against it. They're waiting until a Democrat likes the idea, to later blame them for wanting to have government control of our lives or hand over control of our lives to their corporate friends



That may work for a major metropolitan area like Atlanta (heck, don't suburbanites in Marietta, Peach Tree City, etc., skip downtown for most things anyway), but it's a failure where I live. I live in a tri-city area with about 50k each city separated by 30 miles each one; nobody goes downtown unless it's to the bar or baseball game. So how about the majority of us, who don't live around Philadelphia, Atlanta, Houston, Baltimore, etc., what are we supposed to do? Give up on getting people to move downtown. It's not working, that ship has sailed already. Until inner city schools start receiving rave reviews and high test scores, you are NOT going to see people moving downtown with families.
It is not working in Houston either. It only works in areas with a high population density such as what you find along the Northeast.

Last edited by whogo; 03-26-2014 at 06:42 PM..
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Old 03-26-2014, 06:41 PM
 
25,059 posts, read 23,090,543 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
It is not working in Houston either. In only works in areas with a high population density such as what you find along the Northeast.
I'm advocating for dedicated suburban bus routes. You can change bus routes easily using existing roads. You can't do the same for rail. I've looked at the system map for Houston Metro, and all routes lead downtown. WHY?????? The majority of the population lives nowhere near downtown, nor do they work or shop there! I went on the Houston forum before, and read people saying Houston is a very decentralized city.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JR_C View Post
Within the last few years, 3 underutilized office buildings in downtown Youngstown were converted to high-end residential apartments. (there are 2 more that are currently being converted) Each one was filled within 6 months of opening.



Most transit systems can't eliminate their less-used routes, because then they would be accused of collecting funding from areas without providing service to that area.
Sounds like these apartments cater more for single young professionals than middle class families. There's only so many yuppies to go around. They start to have kids, eventually, too. Unless they are willing to pay for private school, they are not living in the same catchment area of a poorly performing section of HISD. It's going to happen the same way in my city. Old warehouses and factories are being converted to lofts and upscale apartments, marketed toward young, upwardly mobile young professionals, who will eventually move to the suburbs so their kids attend a good quality suburban school instead of the cesspool of the inner city school district in my city.
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Old 03-27-2014, 05:37 AM
 
Location: Youngstown, Oh.
4,885 posts, read 7,629,814 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
Sounds like these apartments cater more for single young professionals than middle class families. There's only so many yuppies to go around. They start to have kids, eventually, too. Unless they are willing to pay for private school, they are not living in the same catchment area of a poorly performing section of HISD. It's going to happen the same way in my city. Old warehouses and factories are being converted to lofts and upscale apartments, marketed toward young, upwardly mobile young professionals, who will eventually move to the suburbs so their kids attend a good quality suburban school instead of the cesspool of the inner city school district in my city.
Yes, and more yuppies (and anyone else who doesn't have kids, but prefers urban living) will replace the ones who leave for better schools.

It's an unfortunate cycle. The city schools won't improve until the middle class returns. But, the middle class won't return to the city schools until they improve.
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Old 03-27-2014, 06:54 AM
 
Location: Austin
29,518 posts, read 16,422,678 times
Reputation: 8061
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattCW View Post
Telecommuting will only work for a handful of jobs. How many jobs can truly be done remotely? Doctors' and nurses' jobs can't, someone has to maintain the hardware, then to support those people, there will be other jobs like the people providing food service, and the people cleaning up both the main job and the food service job, then there's the people that just support the people, human resources. Many jobs also involve a lot of paperwork not because it can't be done remotely, but because for legal and other reasons, a hard copy is needed. How do you ship paperwork around to all those remote workers? Guess you still need some kind of infrastructure there.
We will never have 100% teleworking, it's time to put that fantasy to bed and start looking at real solutions of which rail is one of them!
Nobody ever said 100%. Millions already work either full time or part time from home. Millions more could and that would greatly reduce traffic congestion.
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Old 03-27-2014, 06:59 AM
 
Location: Ohio
19,695 posts, read 14,151,738 times
Reputation: 15870
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roadking2003 View Post
Particularly rail.
Mass transit is your future, especially rail.

09-29-2008, 11:31 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
If I was dictator, I'd bust the rail unions then shift the gasoline and diesel taxes to rail expansion, then I'd slap a huge tax on truck freight.

For those companies in suburbia, there's no way to put in a spur or siding, because the right-of-way and easement costs would be prohibitive. They'd be forced to move into the cities and refurbish and remodel abandoned warehouses and manufacturing facilities there. That would bring people to the cities in hordes and drive out the welfare pukes and "homeless."

Crime would drop off, the tax base would increase, and the infrastructure would be improved with better services.

You'd have gasoline conservation, because food, retail and entertainment are all within walking distance or a short streetcar or tram ride away (fewer DUIs and drunk driving fatalities). You could drop the stupid ethanol thing and divert corn back into food production where it belongs and that would reduce food prices tremendously.

With trains the diesel consumption would drop and more heavy oil could be refined into home heating oil to drop the cost of it, and it would also give the US a surplus of heavy oil to export for revenues.

Trains would create a lot of good paying jobs and also revive small towns in rural areas. That would be a great way to get out of a recession or depression.
06-18-2012, 01:13 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post

All spending is not created equally.

Had I been president, I could have spent less than Obama, yet put 3 Million people back to work. It isn't the amount of money you spend, it's how you spend it.

Instead of giving $800 Billion in bribe money to grass-roots groups as a pay-off for supporting him in the 2008 Election, what Obama should have done is spent $500 Billion as part of an 8 year plan to shift 85% of your freight from over the road trucking to rail. That would have created 3 Million domestic jobs, of all kinds -- GED to MBA -- and brought relief to cities, counties and States who won't have to waste precious tax payer money on roads. It would also reduce pressure on diesel prices, meaning everything you transport, and especially food-stuffs drop in price -- which helps consumers under economic pressure.

See? It's not rocket science. It just takes honesty and political will.

And then what did Obama want to do? Spend tax-payer money on teachers, fire-fighters and police? I guess Obama the "you-Harvard" is clueless about what recessions do -- they eliminate inefficiency, and you have grotesque levels of inefficiency in your education system, as well as in your government service sectors -- like fire-fighters and police. And I can't help but note that all of those systems -- education, fire-fighting and police are heavily union controlled.

Just think....you could have 6 Million unemployed instead of 11 Million.

Obama is neither progressive nor a forward thinker.

You need to be thinking long-term, not short-term.

You need $TRILLIONS to repair your Interstate and US Route infrastructure: you ain't got it.
You need ~$3.5 TRILLION to upgrade your electrical grid removing analog components from the 1920s-1980s: you ain't got it.
You need $5 TRILLION for Social Security....now: you ain't got it.
You need $TRILLIONs for Medicare: you ain't got it.
You can't pay for Obamacare, and quite a few other things.

You either raise taxes...or do without....or start switching to freight-rail.
..

Mircea
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Old 03-27-2014, 06:59 AM
 
Location: Austin
29,518 posts, read 16,422,678 times
Reputation: 8061
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
What I think we need is to start eliminating the hub-and-spoke model of most public transit systems around the country, and just start dedicated transit routes just for the suburbs. Make purely suburban routes that bypasses downtown completely. How many people go grocery shopping, see a movie, etc., downtown? Unless you live in NYC, Chicago, or LA, chances are the average suburbanite does not have a reason to go to the center of town, even for work. This model needs to stop. What's the point of getting suburbanites on the bus or train when they are not being served?
A huge portion of the population in big cities never or rarely goes downtown. I lived in Atlanta for five years and went downtown maybe 2 or 3 times. Same in Dallas and in Los Angeles. And in most cities you still have to own and drive a car. In Atlanta where they have a huge rail system you have to drive quite far, park your car, board a train, then take a taxi to your office. Why would you do that? That's why so few people work downtown in those cities.
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