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Old 03-26-2014, 07:23 AM
 
3,537 posts, read 2,306,895 times
Reputation: 1025

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
Thanks for modeling typical right-wing perspective, i.e., the consideration of those most vulnerable in society (most of whom are good people who would love to work hard at a job that paid enough so that they could pay their own way and secure their own future) as "animals" rather than as human beings like yourself. It really helps underscore the thoroughly immoral nature of that which Republicans and libertarians support.
I agree with you here - no human who needs assistance should be referred to as an animal in a deragoatory manner. Scientifically I think humans maybe accurately referred to as animals.

 
Old 03-26-2014, 07:25 AM
 
36,989 posts, read 16,129,534 times
Reputation: 8410
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU View Post
Thanks for modeling typical right-wing perspective, i.e., the consideration of those most vulnerable in society (most of whom are good people who would love to work hard at a job that paid enough so that they could pay their own way and secure their own future) as "animals" rather than as human beings like yourself. It really helps underscore the thoroughly immoral nature of that which Republicans and libertarians support.
"(most of whom are good people who would love to work hard at a job that paid enough so that they could pay their own way and secure their own future0. Now THAT is laugh.

I worked in gov't housing project homes and and other ghetto homes have an entirely DIFFERENT perspective then you do.

Most of these peole are NOT dumb. They have learned how to SCAM the system in order to maximine what they get.
 
Old 03-26-2014, 07:26 AM
 
1,305 posts, read 1,320,335 times
Reputation: 1364
First of all, I'm a liberal myself. I wouldn't say I'm from the left because there are many things I disagree with the left about (abortion, etc.).

I can see where the OP came from. I've seen many of the things the OP observed plus more. For example, I know this couple. They've been together for 6 years. The girl is underemployed and gets food stamps and public assistance. The guy works for his dad's company and makes a decent salary. And yet they keep insisting on not ever getting married so that the girl can continue getting food stamps and stuff.

I am an engineer. My boyfriend lives with me and is still in school. He made $13k last year with his part-time job. He is not on food stamps or any other public assistance. As long as he lives with me, we will have none of that.

I've never been on unemployment and I can't imagine myself ever will.

But here's the kicker. Do I really want to remove unemployment benefits or welfare because I've seen some bad apples? What if one day I really need unemployment and welfare to get back on my feet? What about the people that really need these programs?
 
Old 03-26-2014, 07:30 AM
 
1,305 posts, read 1,320,335 times
Reputation: 1364
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
"(most of whom are good people who would love to work hard at a job that paid enough so that they could pay their own way and secure their own future0. Now THAT is laugh.

I worked in gov't housing project homes and and other ghetto homes have an entirely DIFFERENT perspective then you do.

Most of these peole are NOT dumb. They have learned how to SCAM the system in order to maximine what they get.
I know what you mean. I've run into these people as well. In fact, I know a welfare mom that is pregnant with her 2nd kid. She's only 18. No HS diploma or GED. She is well on her way to being a welfare mom.
 
Old 03-26-2014, 07:32 AM
 
36,989 posts, read 16,129,534 times
Reputation: 8410
Quote:
Originally Posted by rosie_hair View Post
First of all, I'm a liberal myself. I wouldn't say I'm from the left because there are many things I disagree with the left about (abortion, etc.).

I can see where the OP came from. I've seen many of the things the OP observed plus more. For example, I know this couple. They've been together for 6 years. The girl is underemployed and gets food stamps and public assistance. The guy works for his dad's company and makes a decent salary. And yet they keep insisting on not ever getting married so that the girl can continue getting food stamps and stuff.

I am an engineer. My boyfriend lives with me and is still in school. He made $13k last year with his part-time job. He is not on food stamps or any other public assistance. As long as he lives with me, we will have none of that.

I've never been on unemployment and I can't imagine myself ever will.

But here's the kicker. Do I really want to remove unemployment benefits or welfare because I've seen some bad apples? What if one day I really need unemployment and welfare to get back on my feet? What about the people that really need these programs?
" Do I really want to remove unemployment benefits or welfare because I've seen some bad apples?"

A very stupid question, IMO.

MOST people are for welfare and Unemployment as one poster stated.

You would be hard presses to find many people who want both ended.

The problem is lax enforcement and over sight required to PREVENT wide spread waste, fraud and abuse.

And I speak from personal experience.
 
Old 03-26-2014, 07:41 AM
 
34,353 posts, read 18,606,387 times
Reputation: 7595
Of course this is a lie...nobody ever "plays" the system....everyone WANTS to work.....everyone is a fine outstanding citizen of their state and wuold never lie to NOT have to work....

Oh wait....

'Blind' man who collected $175,000 in disability payments caught after he's seen driving a speed boat and a snowmobile | Mail Online

Welfare Fraud Stories

Quote:
September 2008 – Stanislaus County
Stanislaus County District Attorney Birgit Fladager announced today that fourteen defendants were found guilty during the month of September 2008 of having
committed Welfare Fraud or closely related crimes as a result of their failures to reveal on their applications for Cash Aid, Food Stamps, or Child Care benefits that they were not eligible for such benefits. Read More

August 2008 – Stanislaus County
Two Modestans were convicted recently of welfare fraud, according to statements from the Stanislaus County district attorney's office. Kenneth Eurdean Hopper III, 40, applied for food stamps even though a felony conviction disqualified him from receiving such aid. He was sentenced to one year in jail after he pleaded no contest to welfare fraud, a felony, and being under the influence of marijuana, a misdemeanor. Feleni F. Leota, 32, applied for cash aid and food stamps even though she worked two jobs, earning $19,000 annually. She was sentenced to 240 hours of community service after she pleaded no contest to felony welfare fraud.


January 2008 – Ventura County
A Simi Valley woman was recently arrested on charges of welfare fraud, identity theft, and committing a new felony offense while on bail. The accused allegedly received $1,694 in cash and food stamps, for which she was not legally eligible, by using fake Social Security numbers similar to her own. The charges also included allegations of identity theft and perjury. She was arrested on the new charges in Simi Valley without incident on January 4. Bail was set at $100,000.

June 2007 – Butte County
Eight people were arrested for welfare fraud by investigators from the Butte County District Attorney's Office on the morning of Thursday, June 7, 2007. District Attorney Mike Ramsey made the announcement of the arrests in a press release.

May 2007 – Los Angeles County
To curb welfare fraud, Supervisor Michael D. Antonovich introduced a motion to provide fraud detection and prevention training to all County staff who administer public assistance programs and incorporate “data mining” technology in the Department of Public and Social Services Data warehouse. Currently, the State and County are individually responsible for investigating fraud in their respective programs. This past year, the State’s successful “data mining” program recovered a record $274 million in funds stolen from Medi-Cal. Additionally, on March 21, 2006, the Board approved a motion to develop an interagency Data Warehouse, which DPSS began implementing in July 2007.

May 2007 – Los Angeles County
While exact figures are difficult to tally, experts estimate as much as $300 billion a year is lost to health care fraud in the United States - more than half of it to organized crime. Medi-Cal spends about $34 billion annually to provide care for about 7 million indigent Californians - with about $3 billion of that lost to fraud, experts say. The state Attorney General's Office has a bureau that deals specifically with Medi-Cal fraud. It's prosecuted about 1,000 such cases over the past eight years - double the number for the previous eight years. Most, officials say, are related to organized crime.

May 2007 – Los Angeles County
Lana M. and her husband collected welfare benefits in 2003, claiming they earned less than $24,000. But authorities say Lana M., the former office manager of a job-training center for immigrant welfare recipients, also owned a liquor store and recycling business. Authorities say, she drove a $76,000 luxury car, shopped at Neiman Marcus and Saks Fifth Avenue and had $147,980 stashed in her bedroom dresser.

March 2007 – Arizona/California
KINGMAN - A Bullhead City woman was sentenced in Phoenix to two months in county jail for illegal using food stamps. Rita M. made false statements on welfare applications on 10 different occasions between August 2000 and September 2004. On the applications, she misstated her income and the number of children she had, and failed to tell the Arizona Department of Economic Security that she already received substantial adoption payments from California. She pleaded guilty to fraudulent schemes and practices with other charges being dismissed. Rita M. was also sentenced to three years’ probation and ordered to pay $54,725 in restitution.

March 2007 – Butte County
OROVILLE -- A Paradise woman was sentenced to six months in jail for committing fraud while already in the county jail for a fraud conviction. Lotheda B. was first convicted in November 2005 for defrauding the county Welfare Department of $4,241 in aid. After the conviction, she drew IHSS wages for caring for her mother. A check by the District Attorney's Office IHSS fraud unit found she had claimed to be caring for her mother during the period she was in jail. She was again arrested and charged with defrauding the IHSS system of $646. Lotheda B. was sentenced to 180 days in the county jail, reimbursement, and additional community service. She will face three years probation upon release.

February 2007 – Ventura County
Valie M. was sentence to six months in jail and three years' probation after she pleaded guilty last month to one count of welfare fraud and two counts of grand theft. She pleaded guilty in January 2007 to pocketing money the state paid her live-in boyfriend so he could take care of her two children. She illegally took housing funds, food stamps, child care and welfare payments totaling about $33,000, including $19,232 for child care services, according to prosecutors.
November 2006 – Los Angeles County
The woman whose son was at the center of last year's Michael Jackson trial has pleaded no contest to welfare fraud. Prosecutors contended that she applied for welfare without disclosing she had money from an insurance settlement. Her attorney said her client "felt she had a viable defense" to the welfare fraud charge, but the attorney says the woman wants to "move on with her life" and not put her family through "a major trial." The woman was ordered to complete 150 hours of community service and pay $8,600 restitution by April 27th.
June 2006 – Los Angeles County
Welfare recipients and their friends and relatives defrauded taxpayers of $500 million a year through the county's child care programs, a grand jury report concluded. The report found that nearly half the $1.1 billion CalWORKS child care program is lost to fraud. DPSS staff said the grand jury study shouldn't be used to draw conclusions about child-care fraud because it was not specifically a fraud study.
April 2007 – Los Angeles County
Through their citizen children, illegal immigrants in Los Angeles County collect $420 million annually in welfare and food stamps, according to a report requested by 5th District County Supervisor Michael D. Antonovich. The Los Angeles County Department of Public Social Services told the supervisor that payments to illegal immigrants' children amount to approximately 24% of the county's combined CalWORKS and food stamps budget. According to Antonovich's office, illegal immigrants annually cost the county $360 million in health care and $220 million in incarceration costs.
Suleman aka 'Octomom' is charged with welfare fraud

Quote:
She faces two counts of perjury by false application for aid and one count of aid by misrepresentation, Lacey's office said in a statement. Prosecutors plan to ask that bail be set at $25,000.
Nope, none of this never happened....
 
Old 03-26-2014, 07:51 AM
 
Location: San Diego California
6,797 posts, read 6,323,152 times
Reputation: 5175
The problem with liberal welfare programs is that their direct result is the de-evolution of the human species.

It is a fact that when you subsidize something it results in an increase in whatever you are subsidizing.

When you subsidize a subset of people with low IQ's and ambition whose lives revolve around a cycle of irresponsibility and ignorance, you have people within that group reproducing at a higher rate than the general population and passing their genes along at a greater percentage.

There was a time 60 or more years ago, when even the poor had the self-respect and pride to shun charity, but today you have to look long and hard to find anyone in any financial class who possess any degree of ethics or moral character.
 
Old 03-26-2014, 07:53 AM
 
9,897 posts, read 6,854,683 times
Reputation: 2519
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoD Guy View Post
Now, I generally avoid walmart as a rule, but I decided to hit it for just a few things.
My observations from walmart at midnight...

*They got cheap food. $2.89 for a pound of smoked ham? Bought 2 pounds
*Name-brand soup at .39 cents can? I would have killed for that stuuf in my preteen years. WTF? Bought 6 cans, beans with bacon, tomato, and chicken noodle

*Looking around the store, comparing prices, and brands, I never knew before tonight walmart offered their own generic brand of items at about half the price. Growing up, I would have begged to have access for those items. And still people ***** about the amount of welfare they get

This bull has went on too long, tired of working like a dog and feeding animals.
Cry away, *******s. Assuming the mods dont intercede first lol
Why does everyone say they avoid Walmart, but always seem to go there
Wait till you go to a Dollar Store you will be amazed
The first time I went to a 99 cent store in Vegas I felt like a kid in a candy store

If one had any type of home economic/basic cooking class and shopped at the above, you can live on
much less than the government hands out, and Yes, that includes the allotment for food stamps.
You do not necessarily need to eat junk food either - I'd be careful with all those canned
soups, canned beans You can make homemade for a fraction of the cost.
 
Old 03-26-2014, 08:03 AM
 
34,408 posts, read 41,518,327 times
Reputation: 29887
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucksnee View Post
Of course this is a lie...nobody ever "plays" the system....everyone WANTS to work.....everyone is a fine outstanding citizen of their state and wuold never lie to NOT have to work....

Oh wait....

'Blind' man who collected $175,000 in disability payments caught after he's seen driving a speed boat and a snowmobile | Mail Online

Welfare Fraud Stories



Suleman aka 'Octomom' is charged with welfare fraud



Nope, none of this never happened....
Sure there is welfare fraud but do you scrap all social programs because a small amount of people game the system?
With that logic people have accidents in cars, people shoot each other with guns do you think we should get rid of guns and cars?
 
Old 03-26-2014, 08:05 AM
 
2,085 posts, read 1,371,786 times
Reputation: 1401
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimhcom View Post
It is a fact that when you subsidize something it results in an increase in whatever you are subsidizing.
And this is the thing we need to be focused on. There are undoubtably many people who need assistance. The problem is with those who want assistance. By offering so many assistance programs, we're enabling generational poverty. Many kids are raised by parents who abuse welfare programs and are taught or learn by example of how to live off the government. Why should they get a low-paying job when they can make as much by having children and making this problem worse?

Whenever any suggestions to streamline assistance programs or overhaul them to prevent abuse, many people on the left accuse Conservatives of hating the poor. It's not that we hate the poor in any way (Conservatives actually donate more to charity than Liberals, even secular charities; we also volunteer more), we simply want to reduce the number of people who take advantage of a system that's there for those who legitimately need it. The answer is not to make people comfortable in poverty, it should be to move people out of poverty. After trillions spent, we've barely put a dent in this problem.

Something needs to be done, but until we can get past the name calling and knee-jerk accusations of hating the poor, these programs will continue to hurt the segment of the population they're supposed to help.
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