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Old 03-29-2014, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Ohio
19,883 posts, read 14,221,081 times
Reputation: 16076

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Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
I am watching, you guys say this every time minimum wage goes up and nothing happens.
You lost jobs the last time minimum wage went up.

Why don't you explain to everyone how Americans in the global work-force can compete if they are being paid higher wages?

Can you do that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
So when is this gonna actually happen?
It's been happening....but keep your eyes closed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
COL doesn't care what the minimum wage is.
And that's related to the question, "What is the purpose of Economics?"

You've repeatedly refused to answer the question, so it's not surprising that you don't understand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
So if it happens little by little and we have raised minimum wage, we should be up to 75% unemployed these days.
Straw Man

Your reasoning contains the straw man fallacy whenever you attribute an easily refuted position to your opponent, one that the opponent wouldn’t endorse, and then proceed to attack the easily refuted position (the straw man) believing you have undermined the opponent’s actual position. If the misrepresentation is on purpose, then the straw man fallacy is caused by lying.

[emphasis mine]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow View Post
Dear God...what that poster is telling you is that you won't see an immediate surge of unemployed, it's not a streaming video or a text message that you get instantly. It happens over time, little by little. You continue to pretend it doesn't happen.
Well, you know, some people make the brain-dead look like Stephen Hawking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
I am sure the technology used today in retail is the exact same technology used in the 80s.
And you're wrong as usual.

I used to work for RGIS. They did store inventories. Using very large hand-held calculators, you count the quantity of an item, multiply by the price, record the total amount in Dollars, tag the items you counted, and then moved onto another item to count.

How do you think retail stores do inventory at present?

Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
That doesn't surprise me, as technology advances, employment will continue to change. You could pay these employees a dollar a day and technology would still win out as it advances and becomes cheaper.
I'll accept that as an admission of guilt that Liberals destroyed the Education System in the US.

Since you're the expert economist, why don't you explain to everyone how economies progress?

Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Production jobs are rarely minimum wage jobs. Minimum wage jobs are usually service industry jobs that you cannot ship overseas.
Misrepresentation

If the misrepresentation occurs on purpose, then it is an example of lying. If the misrepresentation occurs during a debate in which there is misrepresentation of the opponent’s claim, then it would be the cause of a straw man fallacy.

If you understood how economies progress, then you ought to know the function of your 3rd Level Economy, and why it pays minimum wage.

You know, it might help if you argued from a set of facts, instead of relying entirely on baseless emotions....

Mircea
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Old 03-29-2014, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Ohio
19,883 posts, read 14,221,081 times
Reputation: 16076
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
Awesome! Connecticut has cured poverty!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikBEggs View Post
Reread the statement again. It does not say "minimum wage is a cure for poverty." It specifically tackles the issue that families working full time for minimum wage are still in poverty. Minimum wage never was a plan to cure American poverty. The American "Dream" was that anyone who goes to work every day full time should not be living in poverty.
What is poverty?

Can you define it objectively in no uncertain terms?

Because if you cannot, then Volobjectitarian wins the argument.

Sucks to be you...but, hopefully, maybe you learned a valuable lesson.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
In many regions, they are virtually the same when considering COL gaps.
You're exactly right! You're evolving. I'm so proud of you. Now just continue to expand your thinking.

Awesome...


Mircea
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Old 03-29-2014, 12:11 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,469,891 times
Reputation: 27565
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
I like technology with some things and not with other things. A buffet is a self service thing anyway.

Tablets will not be taking over the restaurant industry outside of mediocre chain restaurants and airports.
Well I see you don't follow the trends.

High end restaurants are currently working on their mobile technology.
Their waitstaff has the handheld tech to take your order and produce your bill.
Just like when you go to the Apple store and the clerk has the handheld (iPhone, iPad or iPad mini) and can do it all right there on that single device without you ever stepping foot near a register.
And the latest survey show that over 50% of the younger crowd that go to high end restaurants would like to see technology at their tables especially to order drinks and pay for their meals.

You can either follow what goes on in tech and the industries or just make up your own "news".
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Old 03-29-2014, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,504,059 times
Reputation: 7830
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
Well I see you don't follow the trends.

High end restaurants are currently working on their mobile technology.
Their waitstaff has the handheld tech to take your order and produce your bill.
Just like when you go to the Apple store and the clerk has the handheld (iPhone, iPad or iPad mini) and can do it all right there on that single device without you ever stepping foot near a register.
And the latest survey show that over 50% of the younger crowd that go to high end restaurants would like to see technology at their tables especially to order drinks and pay for their meals.

You can either follow what goes on in tech and the industries or just make up your own "news".
Waiters using handheld technology isn't the same as having a tablet be your waiter. When it comes to restaurants I prefer to follow the quality of food and service, not the technology trends.

I care more about waiters who are amazing at their job, bartenders who know how to makes delicious drinks, and cooks who know how to cook up the finest food. Tablets don't even register for me when it comes to dining out, which is why I don't eat mediocre food at chain restaurants.
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Old 03-29-2014, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,469,891 times
Reputation: 27565
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlife78 View Post
Waiters using handheld technology isn't the same as having a tablet be your waiter. When it comes to restaurants I prefer to follow the quality of food and service, not the technology trends.

I care more about waiters who are amazing at their job, bartenders who know how to makes delicious drinks, and cooks who know how to cook up the finest food. Tablets don't even register for me when it comes to dining out, which is why I don't eat mediocre food at chain restaurants.
What do you do when you get a mediocre waiter..ask to have your table switched ?

The cook makes or breaks the restaurant when it comes down to it.
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Old 03-29-2014, 01:39 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,504,059 times
Reputation: 7830
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
What do you do when you get a mediocre waiter..ask to have your table switched ?

The cook makes or breaks the restaurant when it comes down to it.
No, I don't ask to be switched tables, bit if the service is poor, that can discourage me from wanting to come back.

I get that you like having a tablet to order from when you go out to eat, that is fine with me, but don't expect me to love it too just because you do.
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Old 03-29-2014, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Ohio
19,883 posts, read 14,221,081 times
Reputation: 16076
Quote:
Originally Posted by Egbert View Post
100% BS.
Proof Surrogate

Substituting a distracting comment for a real proof.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Egbert View Post
As you can see there was clear deflation throughout most of 2009. This was caused by the liquidity crisis, because when bank generated money through loans known as credit dries up there is less money in the economy, this is what happened during the depression and 2009.
Wrong on both accounts.

Real Deflation began in 1928 with the 1928 Recession.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Egbert View Post
As to the rest it is ad hominim and made up stuff.
Prove it....oh, too bad you cannot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Egbert View Post
Inflation is in fact flat. It has been hovering between 1-2.5% for a while.
That's wrong again.

What kind of "Inflation?"


Quote:
Originally Posted by Egbert View Post
That is because there has been moderate inflation from 2010 to present. Not high inflation but the usually healthy kind that you want that is generally the goal.
And which form of "Inflation" is the healthy kind?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Egbert View Post
Oh look a shadow stats BSer. You know that is a made up conspiracy theory right.
Those are Ad Hominem fallacies.

There is nothing incorrect about ShadowStats.

Intelligent people, especially those of us educated in Economics, know that there are different methodologies used to calculate statistical data.

The method of calculating unemployment changed when the definition of "unemployed" changed in 1994.

Prior to 1994, you were "unemployed" if, and only if, all of the following were true:

1] You were available to work; and
2] You desired to work; and
3] You had sought work in the last 52 weeks.

From 1994 on, you were "unemployed" if, and only if, all of the following were true:

1] You were available to work; and
2] You desired to work; and
3] You had sought work in the last 4 weeks.

The fact that ShadowStats uses methodologies that the US government formerly used, does not make it a "conspiracy theory."

Note that in some [foreign] States, the definition is the "target week." I'm not going to mention which ones....but people educated in Economics will know.

Likewise, the governments measure of "Inflation" has changed quite often over the last several decades.

Had you taken more than just one college class in Economics, you'd know that.

Let's look at the government's recent change in how GDP is calculated.

First, this method will reduce the per capita healthcare costs that everyone claims is higher than other States.

Second, it erased several recessions.....they never happened.

The NBER defines a recession as two consecutive quarters of negative GDP growth.

The Clinton Recession? It never happened. The Bush Recession? Never happened. The Reagan Recession? Never happened. The Carter Recession? Never happened. The Nixon Recession? Never happened. The Kennedy Recession? Never happened.

So, how will people know if the US enters into a recession in the Future?

Unless someone redefines it, you could be in a major depression for several years before it shows up as a minor recession for one quarter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Egbert View Post
Once more you cannot cherry pick commodities to show inflation.
And yet that is exactly what the government does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Egbert View Post
Yup cherry pick. Most of the costs you cited are either not up much at all since 2008 or are tightly controlled commodities through government regulation e.g. utilities and pharma with prices subject to a lot either local, or national regulation.

That is why the CPI is generally used because it is a basket of commodities that reflect the economy as a whole, now it has its problems, but not the kind of problems the conspiracy minded right places on it.
Why did you not tell people that CPI data is "weighted?"

Are you uninformed or are you intentionally trying to mislead people?

The government's weighting system can skew the data in favor of the government --- hiding "Inflation" -- by giving undue weight to categories that are altered by demographics.

For example, households with older Americans have a tendency to spend an higher percentage of their income on healthcare, as opposed to an household with a single person in their 20s or 30s.

Let's talk about government cherry-picking...um, housing equivalent rents.

By excluding housing, it makes it difficult...but not impossible....to determine if government policies are artificially inflating housing prices far above Market Value.

If the government had not tampered with housing in the CPI, it's quite possible the housing crisis could have been avoided....since people would see that housing was being artificially inflated far above Fair Market Values through excess cash/credit, artificially low mortgage interest rates and government policies related to housing.

And then we have another wonderful gift from the Clinton Administration in addition to redefining unemployment.

Hedonics.

And then Clinton gave us Substitution Theory....which I happen to agree...since that is the whole purpose of Economics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Egbert View Post
So, lets go over some moderately advanced economics.
Maybe we can, just as soon as you get up to speed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Egbert View Post
When you have a situation where there is a large asset bubble, and those assets are heavily leveraged so much so that some have more debt then they are worth during the bubble prices what happens when that asset bubble bursts?

The answer is all of that money lent against those assets basically goes up in smoke. This has the effect of constraining lending and taking a whole lot of money out of the economy very quickly.
So what does this have to do with deflation.
Nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Egbert View Post
Well inflation/deflation is determined entirely by the ratio of money to goods/services in the economy. When you have more money relative to goods/services you have inflation, when you have less you have deflation. So what do you think the effect of taking a whole lot of money out of the economy would be. OH deflation.
Yeah? So where is this massive decrease of the money supply?

http://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2...raph.png?g=v50

It's only in your mind....


Mircea

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Old 03-29-2014, 08:39 PM
 
Location: Michigan
2,198 posts, read 2,243,668 times
Reputation: 2091
$10.10 an hour...congratulations minimum wage Connecticutians, you now have the same purchasing power as a Texan making $6.99 an hour. Don't celebrate too hard.
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Old 03-29-2014, 08:44 PM
 
Location: Michigan
2,198 posts, read 2,243,668 times
Reputation: 2091
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mircea View Post
Let's talk about government cherry-picking...um, housing equivalent rents.

By excluding housing, it makes it difficult...but not impossible....to determine if government policies are artificially inflating housing prices far above Market Value.

If the government had not tampered with housing in the CPI, it's quite possible the housing crisis could have been avoided....since people would see that housing was being artificially inflated far above Fair Market Values through excess cash/credit, artificially low mortgage interest rates and government policies related to housing.
As you can see here...

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Old 03-29-2014, 09:03 PM
 
Location: Portland, Oregon
46,053 posts, read 29,504,059 times
Reputation: 7830
Quote:
Originally Posted by EugeneOnegin View Post
$10.10 an hour...congratulations minimum wage Connecticutians, you now have the same purchasing power as a Texan making $6.99 an hour. Don't celebrate too hard.
And thus is why it makes sense for them to raise their minimum wage.
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