U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 03-31-2014, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,415 posts, read 28,264,585 times
Reputation: 28995

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
Nonsense. The moment you say there is "no evidence", everything that follows can be summarily dismissed as completely untruthful. The same crap was claimed regarding the ill health effects to the animals receiving this hormone. But after years of denials, the evidence proved, and Monsanto was forced to include in its own rBGH product literature, warnings of 20 toxic effects to cows injected with this genetically modified growth hormone! One of the most common effects is mastitis resulting in puss in the milk,, which must then treated with antibiotics. This results in pus contaminated milk, along with the antibiotics, and the increased IGF-1 growth factor that is implicated in several types of cancer.

The truth is, Monsanto claims there is no danger to human health from consumption of this milk, but given it's undeniable status of shamelessly lying and being caught repeatedly doing so, any assurances coming from them isn't worth a penny. Nor are the claims of the FDA at this point about anything, given it's absurd claims that mercury isn't harmful ... aspartame isn't harmful ... fluoride isn't harmful .. etc.

The EU member nations, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Japan represent the majority of developed nations do not permit the use of this for a good reason. That it is permitted in the US only provides additional evidence of the defunct nature of the FDA, and the well documented revolving door between it and the corporations it is supposed to be regulating. The hard cold fact is, the FDA stamp of approval would be better illustrated in a skull and crossbones, as opposed to anything resembling an assurance of safety, for which it now means nothing.

As for the comments about chicken, we know the deplorable truth about this too ... fed massive amounts of antibiotics, with arsenic added to the feed these animals must be given to keep them alive long enough to make it to market, poses another set of health risks which is answered with another set of lies and denials.

IGF-1 is not an issue. It is found in the same levels in treated and untreated animals.

If you want to argue that rBGH is bad for cows (the EU position), I can see that. But it does not harm humans.

Milk from cows with mastitis is discarded. Dairy farmers have an incentive to prevent milk from cows with mastitis from getting into the system, because it degrades the quality of the milk. Purchasers do not want it.

http://milkquality.wisc.edu/wp-conte...s-cost-you.pdf

Though you malign the FDA, it withdrew approval for arsenic based compounds in feed last year, and Perdue and Tyson stopped using it several years ago. The FDA decision was based on new evidence that clarified the type of arsenic compounds found in treated birds.

Yes, antibiotics are a problem, one that is being addressed, by --- guess who --- the FDA:

Phasing Out Certain Antibiotic Use in Farm Animals

Your info is out of date, Guy.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-31-2014, 04:13 PM
 
9,094 posts, read 5,612,896 times
Reputation: 3840
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
IGF-1 is not an issue. It is found in the same levels in treated and untreated animals.

If you want to argue that rBGH is bad for cows (the EU position), I can see that. But it does not harm humans.

Milk from cows with mastitis is discarded. Dairy farmers have an incentive to prevent milk from cows with mastitis from getting into the system, because it degrades the quality of the milk. Purchasers do not want it.

http://milkquality.wisc.edu/wp-conte...s-cost-you.pdf

Though you malign the FDA, it withdrew approval for arsenic based compounds in feed last year, and Perdue and Tyson stopped using it several years ago. The FDA decision was based on new evidence that clarified the type of arsenic compounds found in treated birds.

Yes, antibiotics are a problem, one that is being addressed, by --- guess who --- the FDA:

Phasing Out Certain Antibiotic Use in Farm Animals

Your info is out of date, Guy.
I'm out if date? Hahaha ... Let me ask a silly question, Suzy .... how long do you suppose the poisonous nature of arsenic has been known? Try thinking in terms of before Columbus discovered America to narrow your search.

Then explain to us this "new information" that gave rise to the FDA's revelation that feeding this poison to animals scheduled for human consumption might be a bad idea after all?

Now for the truth, Suzy ... the FDA didn't ban arsenic from being fed to animals ... it removed approval for 3 of the 4 most popular versions being used, but the 4th one, "nitarsone" is still being allowed. While one might assume that this one is still being allowed because it's safe, while the other three are not, the real truth is that the manufacturers of the other three withdrew their products voluntarily.

So once again, your claim that arsenic is no longer allowed by the FDA is flatly untrue.

I'll say this for you ... you are consistent.

Now, if ever a golden opportunity existed to defeat one of my points ... you have at your fingertips, the power to do so ... all you need to do is compose one post that is free of fallacy! Can you do it? The truth will set you free, Suzy!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-31-2014, 04:24 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,415 posts, read 28,264,585 times
Reputation: 28995
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
The responsible elements are electricity, refrigeration , sanitation and clean water, just as can be witnessed today in third world countries lacking in those areas who suffer poor life expectancy numbers.

Now, in a circular reasoning way of looking at this, it is often said that these people would live longer if they had access to modern medications to treat these infectious diseases, and vaccines to prevent them. So they in effect are suffering from a lack of good medical care, when the reality is much simpler ... they suffer from poor living standards ... improve those, and the problem of lack of pharmaceutical treatments becomes a moot point.

This is the model of healthcare amplified .... don't bother to clean up the disease carrying water, we have treatments for those diseases, and vaccines! Just drink the dirty water, and let us take worry about the problems!!
Clean water is certainly an admirable goal, but it was vaccination that made smallpox go away and is in the process of making polio go away.

Quote:
Going back even further, there is a little secret hiding in plain sight which is revealed in the average life expectancy of historic figures in American history who lived well beyond those averages you cite. John Adams, 90 years old ... Franklin 84 years old ... poor honest George only made it to 67, but he fought the revolutionary war, and that probably took it's toll.

The truth is, the wealthy aristocracy enjoyed lifespans similar to, and frequently beyond that of today. The low life expectancy numbers were accounted for by the commoners living in overcrowded conditions with poor sanitation, conducive to the incidence and spread of infectious diseases. This same pattern can be seen in underdeveloped countries today who lack the modern conveniences of electricity, refrigeration, indoor plumbing and clean drinking water, yet have easy access to a smorgasboard of WHO provided vaccines.
I assure you infectious diseases have no respect for wealth. A few who died from tuberculosis:

Famous People Who Died of Tuberculosis | List of Celebrity Tuberculosis Deaths

How about smallpox:

Famous People Who Died of Smallpox | List of Celebrity Smallpox Deaths

Author Roald Dahl's daughter died from measles encephalitis at age 7.

Influenza:

Famous People Who Died of Influenza | List of Celebrity Flu Deaths


Quote:
You can't type even a single sentence without including a piece of propaganda. Low and behold, it's probably all those twinkies that have prevented us from realizing the anticipated benefits of the anti smoking.campaign!!

While there is an element of truth in that food is the greatest risk to health ... it's not the quantity, but the contents of that food that pose the dangers. In fact, to call what is on the store shelves "food" is playing fast with facts. But not to worry, even those wise enough to read labels and avoid consuming things that they can't even pronounce, have no idea that much of the healthier choices are becoming dominated by GMO, making those choices perhaps even more unhealthy than the chemical laden processed foods. You can run, but you can't hide ... so sayeth the defenders of health at the FDA. Organic? Hahaha ... we've got a few secrets about that too ... organic GMO ... now that is truly enough to boggle Orwell's mind. Like genuine artificial leather ... the neo-organic natural artificial genetically modified yum yum ...
Yep, obesity may take back some of the gains from reducing smoking. Feel free to give a link to a reference that states otherwise.


Quote:
Cancers are not declining, they are exploding ... and we now lead the world in incidence rates, along with all the other major diseases.

And given the insistence that tobacco was the primary cause of lung cancer, isn't it odd that we've not enjoyed a comparative decline in light of the massive numbers of non smokers today, compared to 50 years ago? Makes you sorta wonder.
Incidence rates (and deaths) from colorectal, breast, prostate, cancer, and, yes, lung cancer have decreased. Two cancers for which the incidence has increased, liver and head and neck, are linked to infections which are preventable with vaccines: hepatitis B and HPV.

Lung cancer statistics for just 10 years:

CDC - Lung Cancer Trends

Quote:
And the tripe about a genetic link to autism becoming clearer and clearer .... the only thing that is becoming clearer and clearer is that it's a neurological disorder caused by some factor that affects neurological function. Of course, it could not possibly be the injection of neurotoxins into two hour old infants, followed by subsequent injections for the following few years, bombarding their little defenseless systems with neurotoxins. Oh heavens no ... read our lips ... vaccines are good ... trust us ... really!!!
Yep, it's even possible to test for genes associated with autism:

https://genetics.emory.edu/egl/featu...index.php/1642

Already 15 to 20% of those with autism will have a genetic cause that can be identified.

More are being discovered:

Mutations in three genes linked to autism spectrum disorders -- ScienceDaily

But don't let facts from researchers who actually study autism get in the way of your delusion that autism is caused by vaccines.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-31-2014, 04:51 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,415 posts, read 28,264,585 times
Reputation: 28995
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
I'm out if date? Hahaha ... Let me ask a silly question, Suzy .... how long do you suppose the poisonous nature of arsenic has been known? Try thinking in terms of before Columbus discovered America to narrow your search.

Then explain to us this "new information" that gave rise to the FDA's revelation that feeding this poison to animals scheduled for human consumption might be a bad idea after all?

Now for the truth, Suzy ... the FDA didn't ban arsenic from being fed to animals ... it removed approval for 3 of the 4 most popular versions being used, but the 4th one, "nitarsone" is still being allowed. While one might assume that this one is still being allowed because it's safe, while the other three are not, the real truth is that the manufacturers of the other three withdrew their products voluntarily.

So once again, your claim that arsenic is no longer allowed by the FDA is flatly untrue.

I'll say this for you ... you are consistent.

Now, if ever a golden opportunity existed to defeat one of my points ... you have at your fingertips, the power to do so ... all you need to do is compose one post that is free of fallacy! Can you do it? The truth will set you free, Suzy!
Apparently you did not read the entire link. The rationale for the FDA's action is clearly described. here it is again:

Questions and Answers Regarding 3-Nitro (Roxarsone)

Yep, the manufacturers withdrew them voluntarily. How about that! Cooperation from industry! What a novel idea! The FDA asks them to stop, and they do!

Nitarsone is still under review. It is the only available treatment to prevent a specific fatal condition in the birds. Note that treatment is stopped several weeks before the animals go to market. If it is shown to have the same effects as the products already tested, it may be withdrawn, too.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-31-2014, 06:08 PM
 
9,094 posts, read 5,612,896 times
Reputation: 3840
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post

Yep, it's even possible to test for genes associated with autism:

https://genetics.emory.edu/egl/featu...index.php/1642

Already 15 to 20% of those with autism will have a genetic cause that can be identified.

More are being discovered:

Mutations in three genes linked to autism spectrum disorders -- ScienceDaily

But don't let facts from researchers who actually study autism get in the way of your delusion that autism is caused by vaccines.
Facts? These aren't facts. They are wild suppositions. Predicting that 15-20% will have a genetic cause is laughable nonsense based on a study involving 500 cases that haven't even proven those cases, but merely speculate, based on loose correlations ... but they want to be right so badly ...

From your link of scientific facts:

when the same mutations are found in multiple affected children, and none are found in children without autism, we believe we have identified mutations that collectively affect a higher proportion of individuals with autism, said Dr Buxbaum.

This is the basis for believing a genetic mutation is the cause? Sure, sure, and, based on the fact that we often see firemen gathered at houses on fire, but never see them at houses not on fire, we believe we have found a cause for those fires .... FIREMEN!!!

To the uninitiated and unwashed masses, all of this pseudo-science mumbo jumbo may sound impressive, but for those of us that understand the nuance of how such science works ... it's all rather obvious.

The inane logic used here is indicative of the massive problems in medical research. Though I really don't buy the "dumb" excuse ... I believe these clowns know all too well the manure they're shoveling. It pays well, and as long as there is a fat research check to cash, somebody's got to do it.

Yet this comes from the same circles who want to dismiss 90% of the genetic code as junk, simply because they have'nt figured out what it does. If they had been a little smarter, and utilized a little forethought, they never would have stepped on themselves so badly with that "junk DNA" absurdity, and reserved that "junk" for use later, such as we have here.

And ... this also comes from the same circles that ascribe genetic mutation as the source of one species becoming an entirely new and separate species .....

And they get paid pretty handsomely for this nonsense!!!

How much are you being paid, Suzy?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-31-2014, 06:41 PM
 
9,094 posts, read 5,612,896 times
Reputation: 3840
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Apparently you did not read the entire link. The rationale for the FDA's action is clearly described. here it is again:

Questions and Answers Regarding 3-Nitro (Roxarsone)

Yep, the manufacturers withdrew them voluntarily. How about that! Cooperation from industry! What a novel idea! The FDA asks them to stop, and they do!

Nitarsone is still under review. It is the only available treatment to prevent a specific fatal condition in the birds. Note that treatment is stopped several weeks before the animals go to market. If it is shown to have the same effects as the products already tested, it may be withdrawn, too.
Oh contrare ... I read a lot more than you might imagine ... you really have to, because as they say, the devil is in the details, and when dealing with what these devils claim, you'd better look closely.

Are you aware of the fact that the testing of these animals for arsenic don't actually test the flesh that one would expect to be consumed? That's right, due to "technical difficulties in developing an analytical method for muscle tissue, the FDA focused it's attention on the liver when it developed and validated it's method for testing inorganic arsenic levels in edible tissue".

Translated into pain English ... the overwhelming majority of the edible portions of the chicken were not actually ever tested for arsenic due to technical difficulties dummies like the public wouldn't understand. Instead, we tested the liver, which just so happens to be the organ responsible for eliminating toxins! Why? Because that's how we roll, baby!

Translated further ... (with my biased opinion based on past revelations ).. "we decided to use the numbers from the liver test, because they were much lower than the levels found elsewhere in the damned birds, and bury this little detail amongst pages and pages of impressive sounding gobbletygook the nitwit publc won't read anyhow. Few will even notice, and those that do can be dismissed as worry worts and conspiracy theorists!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-31-2014, 06:51 PM
 
241 posts, read 144,937 times
Reputation: 84
Interesting. I have 3 kids and wife is pregnant with #4. Only my boy has odd behavior,he is on medicine that helps him but the wife ate,drank,did same stuff with all 3 kids. Has so far with this one as well. Any reason it would affect him and not the other 2? I will start buying organic even though it cost a little more though...we already don't use Fluoride at all...so we are a step ahead of the average person I figure.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-31-2014, 07:46 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
23,415 posts, read 28,264,585 times
Reputation: 28995
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
Facts? These aren't facts. They are wild suppositions. Predicting that 15-20% will have a genetic cause is laughable nonsense based on a study involving 500 cases that haven't even proven those cases, but merely speculate, based on loose correlations ... but they want to be right so badly ...

From your link of scientific facts:

when the same mutations are found in multiple affected children, and none are found in children without autism, we believe we have identified mutations that collectively affect a higher proportion of individuals with autism, said Dr Buxbaum.

This is the basis for believing a genetic mutation is the cause? Sure, sure, and, based on the fact that we often see firemen gathered at houses on fire, but never see them at houses not on fire, we believe we have found a cause for those fires .... FIREMEN!!!

To the uninitiated and unwashed masses, all of this pseudo-science mumbo jumbo may sound impressive, but for those of us that understand the nuance of how such science works ... it's all rather obvious.

The inane logic used here is indicative of the massive problems in medical research. Though I really don't buy the "dumb" excuse ... I believe these clowns know all too well the manure they're shoveling. It pays well, and as long as there is a fat research check to cash, somebody's got to do it.

Yet this comes from the same circles who want to dismiss 90% of the genetic code as junk, simply because they have'nt figured out what it does. If they had been a little smarter, and utilized a little forethought, they never would have stepped on themselves so badly with that "junk DNA" absurdity, and reserved that "junk" for use later, such as we have here.

And ... this also comes from the same circles that ascribe genetic mutation as the source of one species becoming an entirely new and separate species .....

And they get paid pretty handsomely for this nonsense!!!

How much are you being paid, Suzy?
Never have been paid a dime, Guy, not a dime.

I often see firemen where there is no fire. Sometimes they are inspecting businesses to look for things that might make those businesses unsafe. I sometimes see them collecting money for charity, often outside places where I shop. They've even been known to go to schools to talk to kids about fire safety.

When you investigate fires and you find that gasoline has been splashed around the interior of a burned structure, it tends to make you think of arson.

When you find genes that people with autism have and people without autism do not have, it suggests that just perhaps those genes may play a part in the autism. It is not something that someone who is convinced that autism is caused by vaccines wants to accept, though, is it? How about families that have a vaccinated kid with autism --- and an unvaccinated kid with autism? Did you know that if one of a set of identical twins has autism, the other has a 90% chance of having it, too?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas View Post
Oh contrare ... I read a lot more than you might imagine ... you really have to, because as they say, the devil is in the details, and when dealing with what these devils claim, you'd better look closely.

Are you aware of the fact that the testing of these animals for arsenic don't actually test the flesh that one would expect to be consumed? That's right, due to "technical difficulties in developing an analytical method for muscle tissue, the FDA focused it's attention on the liver when it developed and validated it's method for testing inorganic arsenic levels in edible tissue".

Translated into pain English ... the overwhelming majority of the edible portions of the chicken were not actually ever tested for arsenic due to technical difficulties dummies like the public wouldn't understand. Instead, we tested the liver, which just so happens to be the organ responsible for eliminating toxins! Why? Because that's how we roll, baby!

Translated further ... (with my biased opinion based on past revelations ).. "we decided to use the numbers from the liver test, because they were much lower than the levels found elsewhere in the damned birds, and bury this little detail amongst pages and pages of impressive sounding gobbletygook the nitwit publc won't read anyhow. Few will even notice, and those that do can be dismissed as worry worts and conspiracy theorists!
Actually, the concentration in the liver would be expected to be higher, not lower, but, again, don't let facts get in your way.

Interestingly enough, someone has measured arsenic in chicken --- meat and livers. The article is from 2006. Note that Perdue,Tyson, and Gold'N Plump no longer use feed that contains arsenic, so that would change the results of this study.

http://www.iatp.org/files/421_2_80529.pdf

I post the link just to show that although the concentrations of arsenic varied in different products, the highest was in a sample of livers.

Bottom line: the likelihood is the chicken you eat today is less likely to contain arsenic. Be happy!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-31-2014, 08:08 PM
 
9,094 posts, read 5,612,896 times
Reputation: 3840
Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Of Four View Post
Interesting. I have 3 kids and wife is pregnant with #4. Only my boy has odd behavior,he is on medicine that helps him but the wife ate,drank,did same stuff with all 3 kids. Has so far with this one as well. Any reason it would affect him and not the other 2? I will start buying organic even though it cost a little more though...we already don't use Fluoride at all...so we are a step ahead of the average person I figure.
It seems that boys are more suceptable to whatever is the underlying cause or causes of autism. Of course males and females differ in many ways, so it's difficult to speculate on which differences either make boys more vulnerable, or make girls more resistant to the caustive factors.

The politics involved in autism have thoroughly taken over, leaving the truth to be found only by independent research.

This is evident in the dogged insistence by the mainstream that exposure to neurotoxins couldn't be responsible for a neurologic disorder! This is sorta like saying water couldn't be responsible for drowning.

If it were me, i'd have a real doctor test him for heavy metal toxicity, and put him on a detox protocol.

Short circuiting his brain with psychotropics may alter behavior patterns, and may even appear to help, but it does nothing to fix the problem.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-31-2014, 08:28 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,507,006 times
Reputation: 27565
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
Milk from cows with mastitis is discarded. Dairy farmers have an incentive to prevent milk from cows with mastitis from getting into the system, because it degrades the quality of the milk. Purchasers do not want it.
.
Dairy milk is not tested per cow in the big CAFO operations.
It's tested in bulk tank and the US government set the limit at 750,000 cells per ml.
So yes, pus is in the milk but under the government limit.
That is one of the key reasons the milk is pasteurized.

Other countries have a much lower standard.

Small farmers that sell raw milk directly do test each cow monthly.
Fresh milk from a cow should have a reading of less than 1000.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top