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Old 04-01-2014, 10:07 AM
 
Location: The analog world
17,087 posts, read 9,764,679 times
Reputation: 22726

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As a woman who conceived a baby with a severe NTD, let me assure you that not only did I not use alcohol during pregnancy, I don't drink at all and never have. Neither does the baby's father or either set of grandparents. I've been dealing with this nonsense for years. People who give me the side eye, because they believe they have it all figured out. They don't, and you don't, so please just stop.
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Old 04-01-2014, 10:11 AM
 
11,617 posts, read 5,882,374 times
Reputation: 1693
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomparent View Post
As a woman who conceived and lost a newborn with a severe NTD, let me assure you that not only did I not use alcohol during pregnancy, I don't drink at all and never have. Neither does the baby's father or either set of grandparents. I've been dealing with this nonsense for years. People who give me the side eye, because they believe they have it all figured out. They don't, and you don't, so please just stop.
There are other causes of homocysteine build-up, easily corrected with folic acid and B12.
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Old 04-01-2014, 10:13 AM
 
Location: The analog world
17,087 posts, read 9,764,679 times
Reputation: 22726
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperthetic View Post
There are other causes of homocysteine build-up.
Long-term vegetarian with normal blood levels when I conceived. I do not have impaired folate metabolism. You can stop now.
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Old 04-01-2014, 10:22 AM
 
11,617 posts, read 5,882,374 times
Reputation: 1693
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomparent View Post
Long-term vegetarian with normal blood levels when I conceived. I do not have impaired folate metabolism. You can stop now.
Medical industrial zombies do not check blood for homocysteine levels.

For that, you have to go outside.

You probably should have eaten some fish with your leafies.

Eating fish is the only half-way safe way of getting your daily "requirement" of mercury.
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Old 04-01-2014, 10:28 AM
 
Location: The analog world
17,087 posts, read 9,764,679 times
Reputation: 22726
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperthetic View Post
Medical industrial zombies do not check blood for homocysteine levels.

For that, you have to go outside.
Oh, for God's sake, Hyper. I am not going to get into a pissing match with you nor am I going to outline exactly how I know these things, but I do know, probably more than you do. And I am most certainly more familiar with my family's medical history than you are. Neural Tube Defects are multi-factorial. That's what we know right now. End of story.
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Old 04-01-2014, 10:36 AM
 
9,053 posts, read 5,580,860 times
Reputation: 3820
Quote:
Originally Posted by CravingMountains View Post
Sorry, but it has indeed been debunked. It has been debunked time and time again because conspiracy theorists like yourself still somehow convince people that vaccines are responsible for autism, so the studies continue and vaccines are continuously debunked.
Surprise surprise, you did exactly what I asked you not to do ... you simply repeated the mantra "it's been debunked", but this time, you threw in the old "conspiracy theorist" response for good measure. To be blunt, this is just the semi-adult version of typical playground banter "just cuz .... and your momma wears combat boots".

So let's start over, and try to keep this discussion on an adult level, OK?

I'll ask you again .... why do you think neurotoxins cannot cause neurological disorders? This is a real simple question. This is the baseline for any further fruitful discussion, and is the key point of the entire debate!

I suspect you won't answer, but I'm giving you the opportunity to explain where I've barked down the wrong path! Let me answer it for you ... just as automobile accidents can cause body damage to your car, exposure to neurotoxins can cause damage to your brain. It's as simple as that. This is self explanatory in the name itself ... neuro-toxic ... toxic to neurons. I assume we all understand what "toxic" means, right?

Of course, there are other possible causes for brain disorders aside from neurotoxins. There are infections, physical trauma, tumors, lack of sufficient chemicals, etc. So when trying to isolate the cause of a brain malfunction, a process of elimination must occur. You can't cure a problem until you know what the problems, is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CravingMountains View Post
I understand quite well what is fact and what is a conspiracy. You are spouting a conspiracy.
Well then it shouldn't be hard for you to be a bit more specific in identifying what you consider facts and conspiracy theories? Perhaps it would be helpful if you were to elaborate on what you believe is the grand conspiracy theory? Are you claiming that "autism" itself does not exist? Or are you claiming that vaccines do not contain neurotoxic substances? Or is it your contention that the neurotoxins that are found in vaccines do not cause neurological damage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CravingMountains View Post
I will believe a scientific study (and my own observations in life) before I believe someone grasping desperately for an explanation as to why their nephew was diagnosed with a mental disorder.
Now we're getting to the real meat of the issue! While you seem to be insinuating that these nebulous "studies" are in agreement with your own observations, you haven't offered one single hint as to what those observations are. I have the exact opposite problem ... my own observations and DIRECT PERSONAL EXPERIENCE does not reflect the conclusions of these "studies" you cite. And I am of the rational mindset to believe what I see with my own eyes, rather than believe what I am told to believe. You think that is silly of me? Or does that not seem reasonable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CravingMountains View Post
You are wanting someone or something to blame. The truth of the matter is that sometimes s**t happens. Doctors today are better at diagnosing the different kinds of s**t that can happen to people.
No, and I find such casual dismissal of the suffering my nephew endured, as well as the thousands of other children who are also enduring this, and the many thousands who will suffer the same consequences in the future (until the cause is proven and corrected) as more than a case of "stuff happens".

You are correct on one point ... I do indeed want to identify the cause ... not for the purpose of "blaming someone or something" though ... as I said much earlier, you cannot correct a problem until you know what the problem is. And any decent human being should want to prevent harm to our children, as well as providing effective care to those many children and their families who are suffering this disorder. And I would feel just as strongly if it were your child suffering!

As for my nephew, we now know what the cause of his suffering was, by virtue of the treatments he received which fully restored his health and mental function. This is the most definitive form of evidence one can have. In his case, the theory was that he was suffering neurotoxicity, and the treatments to remove those toxins did indeed correct his problem, proving the diagnosis correct. But that still does not prove the source of his exposure. And I personally don't give a rat's jazz whether vaccines were the source, or some Chinese additive in baby food ... the important thing is to identify the source or sources, so that further damage to other children can be avoided, while also making sure that those children and their families currently suffering now are informed of and receive the successful treatments that restored my nephew's health.

Perhaps you think this is silly of me too?
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Old 04-01-2014, 10:37 AM
 
11,617 posts, read 5,882,374 times
Reputation: 1693
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomparent View Post
Neural Tube Defects are multi-factorial.
Who's disagreeing with that?

Vaccines, too, are multi-factorial.
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Old 04-01-2014, 10:40 AM
 
Location: The analog world
17,087 posts, read 9,764,679 times
Reputation: 22726
Glad we've got that straight, so why imply that alcohol use causes NTDs? Pesticide exposure has a very weak positive correlation with NTD. Alcohol, not at all.
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Old 04-01-2014, 10:41 AM
 
9,053 posts, read 5,580,860 times
Reputation: 3820
Quote:
Originally Posted by CravingMountains View Post
Sorry, but it has indeed been debunked. It has been debunked time and time again because conspiracy theorists like yourself still somehow convince people that vaccines are responsible for autism, so the studies continue and vaccines are continuously debunked.
Surprise surprise, you did exactly what I asked you not to do ... you simply repeated the mantra "it's been debunked", but this time, you threw in the old "conspiracy theorist" response for good measure. To be blunt, this is just the semi-adult version of typical playground banter "just cuz .... and your momma wears combat boots".

So let's start over, and try to keep this discussion on an adult level, OK?

I'll ask you again .... why do you think neurotoxins cannot cause neurological disorders? This is a real simple question. This is the baseline for any further fruitful discussion, and is the key point of the entire debate!

I suspect you won't answer, but I'm giving you the opportunity to explain where I've barked down the wrong path! Let me answer it for you ... just as automobile accidents can cause body damage to your car, exposure to neurotoxins can cause damage to your brain. It's as simple as that. This is self explanatory in the name itself ... neuro-toxic ... toxic to neurons. I assume we all understand what "toxic" means, right?

Of course, there are other possible causes for brain disorders aside from neurotoxins. There are infections, physical trauma, tumors, lack of sufficient chemicals, etc. So when trying to isolate the cause of a brain malfunction, a process of elimination must occur. You can't cure a problem until you know what the problems, is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CravingMountains View Post
I understand quite well what is fact and what is a conspiracy. You are spouting a conspiracy.
Well then it shouldn't be hard for you to be a bit more specific in identifying what you consider facts and conspiracy theories? Perhaps it would be helpful if you were to elaborate on what you believe is the grand conspiracy theory? Are you claiming that "autism" itself does not exist? Or are you claiming that vaccines do not contain neurotoxic substances? Or is it your contention that the neurotoxins that are found in vaccines do not cause neurological damage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CravingMountains View Post
I will believe a scientific study (and my own observations in life) before I believe someone grasping desperately for an explanation as to why their nephew was diagnosed with a mental disorder.
Now we're getting to the real meat of the issue! While you seem to be insinuating that these nebulous "studies" are in agreement with your own observations, you haven't offered one single hint as to what those observations are. I have the exact opposite problem ... my own observations and DIRECT PERSONAL EXPERIENCE does not reflect the conclusions of these "studies" you cite. And I am of the rational mindset to believe what I see with my own eyes, rather than believe what I am told to believe. You think that is silly of me? Or does that not seem reasonable?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CravingMountains View Post
You are wanting someone or something to blame. The truth of the matter is that sometimes s**t happens. Doctors today are better at diagnosing the different kinds of s**t that can happen to people.
No, and I find such casual dismissal of the suffering my nephew endured, as well as the thousands of other children who are also enduring this, and the many thousands who will suffer the same consequences in the future (until the cause is proven and corrected) as more than a case of "stuff happens".

You are correct on one point ... I do indeed want to identify the cause ... not for the purpose of "blaming someone or something" though ... as I said much earlier, you cannot correct a problem until you know what the problem is. And any decent human being should want to prevent harm to our children, as well as providing effective care to those many children and their families who are suffering this disorder. And I would feel just as strongly if it were your child suffering!

As for my nephew, we now know what the cause of his suffering was, by virtue of the treatments he received which fully restored his health and mental function. This is the most definitive form of evidence one can have. In his case, the theory was that he was suffering neurotoxicity, and the treatments to remove those toxins did indeed correct his problem, proving the diagnosis correct. But that still does not prove the source of his exposure. And I personally don't give a rat's jazz whether vaccines were the source, or some Chinese additive in baby food ... the important thing is to identify the source or sources, so that further damage to other children can be avoided, while also making sure that those children and their families currently suffering now are informed of and receive the successful treatments that restored my nephew's health.

Perhaps you think this is silly of me too?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-01-2014, 10:51 AM
 
11,617 posts, read 5,882,374 times
Reputation: 1693
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomparent View Post
Glad we've got that straight, so why imply that alcohol use causes NTDs? Pesticide exposure has a very weak positive correlation with NTD. Alcohol, not at all.
Alcohol, indirectly, by decreasing folic acid, and causing a rise in homocysteine.
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