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Old 03-27-2014, 01:44 PM
 
32,205 posts, read 16,541,956 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
Didn't mean we had a technology edge though. Every weapon system of the time was inferior to a German or Russian counterpart. Every, single one, minus the atomic bombs, since ours were the only ones. Our logistics were superior, our industrial base was superior, without a doubt, but our technology was pitifully inferior
<shrug> So? EU/US now possess superior tech and the bigger industrial base. (And I do think you overstate the case more than a little, btw.)

Quote:
The world is fortunate Hitler was a crackhead nutbag who commanded his military based on psychotic emotions rather than tactics, otherwise, the EU would be currently called The Fatherland.
Nah - the EU would be USSR-West, I'm afraid.
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Old 03-27-2014, 01:59 PM
 
Location: California
11,433 posts, read 17,122,259 times
Reputation: 12496
Default Thinking the unthinkable: War with Russia.

It's pretty easy to invade a country who doesn't have a real military but Russia has one, we have no business getting involved in another loss for the USA until the time we learn how to win a war.
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Old 03-27-2014, 02:08 PM
 
Location: A great city, by a Great Lake!
15,908 posts, read 10,054,149 times
Reputation: 7456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
I don't know... that's what we like to tell ourselves. They have nukes though. Nukes don't have to be state of the art to be effective. If, and I think we should, move on Russia. It should be with the understanding that the conflict will go nuclear. So... do we wait for them to do it or do we do it first. That is the only question. The o.p. was way too long... settling things with Russia settles things for the entire planet once and for all. If Russia's GDP is only equivalent to that of California it is because the Oligarchs don't need much more than they have. America's economy is similalry stagnant. There has been scant growth in America's GDP as well. Time to shake things up. Literally. Nuke the planet back to a level playing field.

H

Wait. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you want to move on Russia, knowing the potential of a nuclear war that could kill us all? If so, thank God you're not in charge.
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Old 03-27-2014, 02:09 PM
 
6,335 posts, read 4,419,638 times
Reputation: 1640
Lunatic right wingers aren't satisfied with just one war, they want to start wars all over the world.
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Old 03-27-2014, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Minnysoda
8,592 posts, read 8,506,762 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Draper View Post
Lunatic right wingers aren't satisfied with just one war, they want to start wars all over the world.
No one I know thinks we should go. (and I only associate with the correct people)
Now if for some reason the US was stupid to go up against the Russkis I don't think it will be as easy as some on here think...Nato won't be to much help so it would be US mostly doing the heavy lifting and as someone mentioned We don't possess the fighting will and spirit of our Grandfathers. BTW when everyone squeals about NATO forces you do understand that NATO NRF is only about 25,000 troops.... The Russians will steam roll those guys while everyone else in NATO is trying to get their collective crap together. The Bundeswher is only 180000 strong and while highly trained and equipped I don't think it would be long before is Berlin '45 redux

Last edited by my54ford; 03-27-2014 at 02:30 PM..
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Old 03-27-2014, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles County, CA
29,125 posts, read 21,986,388 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Draper View Post
Lunatic right wingers aren't satisfied with just one war, they want to start wars all over the world.
Barack Obama is a right-winger?
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Old 03-27-2014, 02:17 PM
 
6,801 posts, read 2,498,835 times
Reputation: 3668
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
<shrug> So? EU/US now possess superior tech and the bigger industrial base. (And I do think you overstate the case more than a little, btw.)
Not really overstating. I totally agree that the EU/US possess a bigger industrial base, but armies still, to this day, ours included, run on gasoline. Russia is net exporter of it and would have shorter logistic chains since they'd be defending. The EU/US are net consumers of it, and would have far longer logistic chains since they be extending with attack. Just that one simple bit of battlefield arithmetic puts anyone attacking modern Russia at a disadvantage.

Now, let's talk national political will. Who do you think possesses more, just generally - the folks who defend against aggression, or the attackers on foreign soil? Americans and Europeans believe in the nonsense of "proportional response" which means any attack on Putin would be not only pitiful and weak, but telegraphed from about 5 light years away, and like everyone has known since about the mid 60s, all you have to do to crush American will is make an American invasion costly on body count. This country sees flag draped coffins, and our knees go watery.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA View Post
Nah - the EU would be USSR-West, I'm afraid.
Hitler stops at Poland and just takes France and the rest of Western Europe, leaving the Balkans and Eastern Europe alone, and the world would be divided up between Germany, Russia and the US. Stalin had the same issues going West that Hitler had going East. Hitler leaves well enough alone with Stalin, and they'd have divvied up Eurasia entirely, and Western Europe would be Der Fatherland. Remember...until Tojo gave the US a reason to not help the Nazis, a whole lot of American business was going Hitler's way, and the big bugaboo for the German people was humiliation in front of the French first and foremost. Hitler was psycho to prove himself more of a god than Stalin, and had he not been, things go much differently for the world in the early 40s.
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Old 03-27-2014, 02:36 PM
 
Location: A great city, by a Great Lake!
15,908 posts, read 10,054,149 times
Reputation: 7456
Quote:
Originally Posted by my54ford View Post
No one I know thinks we should go. (and I only associate with the correct people)
Now if for some reason the US was stupid to go up against the Russkis I don't think it will be as easy as some on here think...Nato won't be to much help so it would be US mostly doing the heavy lifting and as someone mentioned We don't possess the fighting will and spirit of our Grandfathers. BTW when everyone squeals about NATO forces you do understand that NATO NRF is only about 25,000 troops.... The Russians will steam roll those guys while everyone else in NATO is trying to get their collective crap together. The Bundeswher is only 180000 strong and while highly trained and equipped I don't think it would be long before is Berlin '45 redux

Maybe. Maybe not. Let the Russians try to roll on our soil, and I guarantee you that you'd see more fighting spirit from our citizenry than you or the Russians can handle.
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Old 03-27-2014, 02:39 PM
 
6,335 posts, read 4,419,638 times
Reputation: 1640
Quote:
Originally Posted by no1brownsfan View Post
Maybe. Maybe not. Let the Russians try to roll on our soil, and I guarantee you that you'd see more fighting spirit from our citizenry than you or the Russians can handle.
WOLVERINES!!!




Red Dawn Trailer (1984) - YouTube
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Old 03-27-2014, 02:43 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
12,300 posts, read 7,940,571 times
Reputation: 6464
Quote:
Originally Posted by Volobjectitarian View Post
Not really overstating. I totally agree that the EU/US possess a bigger industrial base, but armies still, to this day, ours included, run on gasoline. Russia is net exporter of it and would have shorter logistic chains since they'd be defending. The EU/US are net consumers of it, and would have far longer logistic chains since they be extending with attack. Just that one simple bit of battlefield arithmetic puts anyone attacking modern Russia at a disadvantage.

Now, let's talk national political will. Who do you think possesses more, just generally - the folks who defend against aggression, or the attackers on foreign soil? Americans and Europeans believe in the nonsense of "proportional response" which means any attack on Putin would be not only pitiful and weak, but telegraphed from about 5 light years away, and like everyone has known since about the mid 60s, all you have to do to crush American will is make an American invasion costly on body count. This country sees flag draped coffins, and our knees go watery.

Hitler stops at Poland and just takes France and the rest of Western Europe, leaving the Balkans and Eastern Europe alone, and the world would be divided up between Germany, Russia and the US. Stalin had the same issues going West that Hitler had going East. Hitler leaves well enough alone with Stalin, and they'd have divvied up Eurasia entirely, and Western Europe would be Der Fatherland. Remember...until Tojo gave the US a reason to not help the Nazis, a whole lot of American business was going Hitler's way, and the big bugaboo for the German people was humiliation in front of the French first and foremost. Hitler was psycho to prove himself more of a god than Stalin, and had he not been, things go much differently for the world in the early 40s.
That is actually what diferentiates our military compared to the rest of the world, we have the logistics to actually wage a foreign war. We were doing just that over the last decade. We have the international military bases already in place. We have the natural resources, we are a net consumer when it comes to oil, but that is because we choose to buy it instead of utilize our own. We control the seas so we can move our crap easily around the world. We dominate the air and can move crap quickly within theater and support an invasion force.


Now I won't get into political will. I will just say that as long as Russia keep invading various countries the political will to stop Russia will grow.
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