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Old 03-28-2014, 07:49 AM
 
14,298 posts, read 8,082,803 times
Reputation: 4247

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Quote:
Originally Posted by earthlyfather View Post
Man. Where can I vote. Like the mEssiah he is, Mr Prez pulls a rabbit out of the hat. Six million people have signed up for Obamacare. Ahead of schedule and on target with the revised target. Obamacare enrollment at 6 million, hits goal: White House

'Course, he nor Kath, nor Nance, nor harry can tell you:

1. How many people actually paid the premium

2. How many people gained insurance for the first time

3. What the demographics look like

and, on and on and on. I smell a skunk in this miraculous numbers.
I've even heard the "Preezy" characterize those 6 million people who signed as being previously uninsured. So not only is he claiming six million signed up, but they didn't have insurance before ObamaCare.
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Old 03-28-2014, 07:51 AM
 
3,576 posts, read 6,049,754 times
Reputation: 1432
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida.bob View Post
Why do you hate that people are getting HC Ins coverage?
No, we don't hate people getting health coverage. We hate the government over stepping it's boundaries again.

Think about this, close to 12-15 million "uninsured" had household incomes greater than 75K. I don't see a single Democrat who bragged about all these uninsured pointing to this figure. They just add that 12-15 million figure to the 50 million figure and claim all these people are uninsured.

The facts remain, the majority of people uninsured CHOSE to be uninsured. All those young adults ages 18-35. The vast majority are healthy and the ACA ain't saving them a dime. They spend more money on cellular data plans from Verizon and ATT each month rather than pay for health insurance.

What we really have is about 15 million people in this country who are truly "uninsurable" due to pre existing condition or financial needs. We need to focus on these 15 million rather than mess up the entire health system for people who currently are happy with their plans.
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Old 03-28-2014, 07:52 AM
 
3,576 posts, read 6,049,754 times
Reputation: 1432
Quote:
Originally Posted by florida.bob View Post
Why do you hate that people are getting HC Ins coverage?
So you want to get rid of your TriCare and start paying real premiums and deductibles?
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Old 03-28-2014, 07:55 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,290,637 times
Reputation: 27564
Quote:
Originally Posted by OICU812 View Post
I've even heard the "Preezy" characterize those 6 million people who signed as being previously uninsured. So not only is he claiming six million signed up, but they didn't have insurance before ObamaCare.
They can say whatever they want because there's no data being produced.
We have to take their word for it.

All HHS has is a count of signups.
HHS says they don't know how many have paid but the providers say they gave HHS the data.
HHS says the provider's data is not reliable

Sebelius told Congress she doesn't know how many paid because HHS doesn't collect that.
She's right..HHS doesn't "collect" that but it is given to them monthly by the providers.

The providers say the numbers aren't as rosy as HHS portrays and that's probably why.

The 4 big providers told the press about 20% haven't paid yet.

So how many have paid ACA premiums? - Kyle Cheney - POLITICO.com
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Old 03-28-2014, 08:10 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,290,637 times
Reputation: 27564
For 6 million Congress could have just expanded medicaid to tack on monthly subsidized premiums.
They didn't have to shake up an entire industry and affect all Americans.

At least then the damage would have been contained.
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Old 03-28-2014, 08:19 AM
 
3,576 posts, read 6,049,754 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
For 6 million Congress could have just expanded medicaid to tack on monthly subsidized premiums.
They didn't have to shake up an entire industry and affect all Americans.

At least then the damage would have been contained.
I agree.

Democrats and ACA supporters just don't get it. They think Repubs and conservative are all the party of hate.

But there is zero way the Democrats could have pass the ACA without "including" the middle class into the ACA. They could not say we are just going to expand medicaid. It's political suicide not to include the middle class. The facts remain 80% of the new sign ups are from medicaid expansion. It's not really including the middle class. It's not sustainable.

And worst of all, it involves heavy regulation into the health industry.

Why don't the Dems regulate the law industry. Make it so low income people get access to "private" top notch attorneys (none of this pro bono crap lawyers cherry pick). Force top attorneys to defend all low income criminals and make that 10% of their clientele.
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Old 03-28-2014, 08:26 AM
 
3,576 posts, read 6,049,754 times
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The real question for ACA supporters is:

How many of you still support the law even those you are paying much more for it?

It seems all the ACA supporters either are not affected negatively or getting a benefit from it.

I see zero posts about someone happy with paying 40% more for the same coverage they had pre ACA.
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Old 03-28-2014, 08:29 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,093 posts, read 72,290,637 times
Reputation: 27564
Quote:
Originally Posted by aneftp View Post
The real question for ACA supporters is:

How many of you still support the law even those you are paying much more for it?

It seems all the ACA supporters either are not affected negatively or getting a benefit from it.

I see zero posts about someone happy with paying 40% more for the same coverage they had pre ACA.
Paying more now and it will go up even more in the future because all the other revenue streams got exempted, wavered or postponed.

The revenue streams aren't there now but the money is still being spent.
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Old 03-28-2014, 08:35 AM
 
14,298 posts, read 8,082,803 times
Reputation: 4247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emanon13 View Post
None of it matters! Show me where in the Constitution, our LAW, does it say the government can force me to purchase anything! That is the only question that matters!
I think it says it somewhere in the constitution, that as a function of US citizenship, you must sign a binding contract with another citizen, paying up to 50% of your after-tax income, for a product designed and approved, by federal bureaucrats, or forfeit 2% or more of your total income to the IRS.

You probably need to read the fine print under the "living, breathing Constitution" section.
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Old 03-28-2014, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Ohio
19,682 posts, read 14,144,272 times
Reputation: 15858
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
That's your best defense of this ?
It just shows you how pathetic they really are.


Quote:
Originally Posted by florida.bob View Post
Why do you hate that people are getting HC Ins coverage?
Excuse me, but you are the hater.

You are the one who is denying Americans the opportunity to build wealth and pass that wealth onto their children and grand-children, because you hate the Free Market.

Here's your proof...

"Premiums paid by an employer on policies of group life insurance without cash surrender value covering the lives of his employees, or on policies of group health or accident insurance...do not constitute salary if such premiums are deductible by the employer under Section 23(a) of the IRS Code."

Source: Public Law 83-591, August 16, 1954; Internal Revenue Code of 1954, Section 106. For more information see the 1986 Internal Revenue Code.

Prove to us that you do not hate poor people, and get that law repealed.

The minute that law is repealed, we go back to the old way, where catastrophic health insurance was tied to life insurance.

They were one in the same.

You buy $1 Million in catastrophic health insurance/life insurance; you pay on it month after month after month and then one day....

....you have equity....you can borrow money against it.

You can use it to pay bills for catastrophic health care.

Whatever you don't use for catastrophic healthcare gets passed onto your beneficiaries, like your spouse or children or grand-children.

Why do you hate lower income people so much?

Why would you deny lower income people the opportunity to build wealth, and leave that wealth to their children and grand-children?

You must be a real hater to want to deny lower income people opportunities to climb the ladder.

Don't you want lower income people to have money to use as a down-payment on a home, or to buy a home with mostly cash, or to have their grand-children go to college without worrying about Pell Grants or Student Loans?

You haters constantly whine about the Middle Class, and yet you deny the Middle Class the opportunity to build or maintain wealth, and to pass that wealth onto their children.

You know, when you think about it, Liberal ideology is really sick and perverted.

Conservatives want people to succeed....too bad Liberals don't.


Quote:
Originally Posted by florida.bob View Post
The OECD debunks the American Hospital Association's claims here....



And the European Commission of the European Union debunks it here.....


UNIT Euro per inhabitant
ICHA_HF General government

Romania....... 241.10
Germany .......2,537.44
United States....... 2,657.86
Switzerland .......3,114.60
Netherlands .......3,271.16
Denmark .......3,775.17
Luxembourg .......4,105.86
Norway .......4,195.13

And here again....

UNIT Euro per inhabitant
ICHA_HF Private household out-of-pocket expenditure

Romania .......63.95
Germany....... 403.33
United States....... 697.13
Norway .......805.54
Switzerland....... 1,590.18


Source: Database EuroStat: The European Commission of the European Union.


And then the Canadian Medical Association slams it here....

The risks of waiting for cardiac catheterization: a prospective study

However, only 37% of the procedures overall were completed within the requested waiting time.
Interpretation: Patients awaiting cardiac catheterization may experience major adverse events, such as death,...
The risks of waiting for cardiac catheterization: a prospective study



If healthcare truly costs less in Canada, then it is impossible to have waiting lists with people on the waiting lists dying for such a simple procedure that Americans get within minutes, hours or days.

Same story here....

Lung cancer treatment waiting times and tumour growth.

Therefore, 21% of potentially curable patients became incurable on the waiting list. This study demonstrates that, even for the select minority of patients who have specialist referral and are deemed suitable for potentially curative treatment, the outcome is prejudiced by waiting times that allow tumour progression.

US National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health

If the cost of healthcare was less in Britain, then people would not be dying on waiting lists.

Shall we pity those who live in abject fear of Free Market healthcare reforms?.....

Mircea
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