How Home Ownership Keeps Blacks Poorer Than Whites (downturn, education, vs)
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Lathrup Village has about 4,000 people. Is that really a city? My hometown has 5 stop lights in it, has largely rural parts, and has 7,000+ people. I'm not sure if it really fits the conversation here. Seems like a nice place though.
Southfield's problems likely result from Northland and the Detroit spill over. In the residential areas I doubt that the crime rate is that much above the national average.
You just said something important though. Many black people do not come from generations of wealth. Most black people do not know how to handle their finances and how to invest their money properly, which is a point that I think is valid from the article.
Regardless of race, most people don't come from generations of wealth. Credit card debt is evidence that people choose ( addicted) to live beyond their means. The housing bubble was a serious indication of the general population not knowing how to handle their finances.
Regardless of race, most people don't come from generations of wealth. Credit card debt is evidence that people choose ( addicted) to live beyond their means. The housing bubble was a serious indication of the general population not knowing how to handle their finances.
Although I generally agree about how we have a culture in this country of over spending, however the statistics of how much wealth whites and Asians have compared to Blacks and Hispanics shows a clear difference by race.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- White Americans have 22 times more wealth than blacks -- a gap that nearly doubled during the Great Recession.
The median household net worth for whites was $110,729 in 2010, versus $4,995 for blacks, according to recently released Census Bureau figures.
The difference is similarly notable when it comes to Hispanics, who had a median household net worth of $7,424. The ratio between white and Hispanic wealth expanded to 15 to 1.
The gap between the races widened considerably during the recent economic downturn, which whites weathered better than blacks, Hispanics and Asians.
I do know a great deal about wealthier black neighborhoods and I do not know what you are speaking of. Please you have been insistent that we understand the comparison between the two, so why not just post a link with the information you are referencing? Even if I look for it, which there has probably been close to a million threads on this particular section, how do I know I am looking at the ones you are referring to?
Threads here repeat themselves, stuff you are saying is the same thing that similar posters who claim to be black say as well. I live in Atlanta. In the Cascade area of SW Atlanta there is decent schools and lower crime rates depending on the neighborhood. There are also suburban communities in metro Atlanta such as Sandtown and Ben Hill that are decent areas to live that lack diversity other than blacks. DeKalb County has a very high rate of black wealth here in Atlanta, but like all other metro areas, there are good and bad parts. As someone who is not from Atlanta, I personally don't think that any of their schools are all that great, but even in my neighborhood, we have a high school that has an "early college" (here in Atlanta high schools have different "academies" that are rated separately and not as a general body and those academies even utilize a specific portion of the building) that is rated higher in quality than majority white neighborhood high schools. SE Atlanta has the Carver Early College, which is one of the only 10 rated high schools in APS and it is a majority black school in a majority black neighborhood. My husband is from Chicago and has family who live in Beverly and the Morgan Park area. Both of those have lower crime on average and have decent schools. He has cousins who live in the Pill Hill/Calumet Heights area as well where there is low crime and good schools and majority upper income black people. Also, you have to realize that not everywhere in the country is the school a child attends dependent on his/her district. In my hometown kids can go to any school their parents want them to go to practically because they have school choice so people are not limited by attendance boundaries. In Chicago especially there is the magnet and selective enrollment schools. A large percentage of all of them on the Southside are majority black.
How is this "fear" different? Should white people trust black people more than vice versa? It sounds like there is a level of discomfort for most races to live around one another. I don't necessarily think that there aren't some white people who are afraid, but that is just a generalization. There are legitimate factors to not live in certain neighborhoods. I have a family now and I live in a place that is less black than PG and it's strictly because of schools for my children. I still have family in PG, still visit PG, but it's not a place that I want my kids going to school because I believe I can give them better. Can a white person not draw the same conclusion without race being involved? That's all I'm asking.
I didn't say the fear was "different," I actually stated it was similar. I also stated that people chose to live near people of their own race due to being afraid or mistrustful of one another. I am not trying to say that white people are in the wrong for doing that, I am just saying that that is a factor in them staying in majority white neighborhoods just as that mistrust is a factor for black people staying in majority black neighborhoods and that whites, due to being greater in number, drive the housing market so what they prefer will determine which areas are and are not "desirable."
As a black person, I also want to point out that it seems to me you are trying to defend "white people" when I am not attacking them and I even stated that I don't think they are racist and that I think blacks don't live around them for the same reasons they don't want to live around us. I wonder why you seem to want to defend them. If you think that just by being around whites, your life will be better. In my experience, I find that many times black people have an inferiority complex that makes them think that majority black automatically means "bad" or "sub par." I believe that this feeling in general, that blacks are bad or sub par, is one that is widespread in our country amongst all demographics but especially amongst black people and that that perception, not buying homes or living in specific areas, but the attitude that you cannot do better and are not better and will never be better if you associate with a majority of people that look like you, is the primary factor in black people not doing well financially, educationally, and economically.
I feel like you are focusing on one conclusion, which happens to be negative, about whites and one conclusion, that you seem to justify for blacks, but really there are many factors for both why they make the decisions of where they do and do not live.
I am not focusing on conclusions and I am not being negative. I am stating observations and known facts about the existence of safe, majority black areas. And again, I think both blacks and whites are fearful of each other for different reasons, which is why integration of neighborhoods is not as widespread across the country not only racially but ethnically as well. Hispanics, Eastern Europeans, and Asians still segregate themselves from other groups as well for the same reasons - fear and comfort level. Admitting that is not a bad thing, nor is it negative, it is acknowledging the truth.
I posted it because that was the information given in the article but the amount of money mentioned is really the main point. I don't see how being considered the 16th largest country in the world, is anything that is laughable. It shows just how far money in the black community can go. It still goes to show that there is a disproportionate about of wealth in the black community in spite of the amount of money generated into the community.
Responses above in bold.
It was laughable that wealth was associated with talking on the phone and cell phones. Also, you seem to forget that America is a rich country. Of course black Americans would be rich compared to other countries. We live in one of the wealthiest countries in the world, the majority of us are not poor, we don't overwhelmingly live in crime ridden inner cities anymore, and we are steadily becoming more educated which will only further our economic growth. So it is silly to think that because we spend money, we are bad (again, this reeks of an inferiority complex or some need to down black people for no particular reason, basically, you being negative) or somehow worst than other Americans. Other Americans spend more money than we do, they just spend them on specific things that are not stereotyped based on appearance. I don't know too many black women who buy $800 blue jeans for instance, but I know quite a few white women who do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by justtitans
Although I generally agree about how we have a culture in this country of over spending, however the statistics of how much wealth whites and Asians have compared to Blacks and Hispanics shows a clear difference by race.
Of course there is a clear difference. In 1960 over half of all black people in this country lived in abject poverty (my mom was only 4 years old when the Civil Rights Act was passed so I am only the 2nd generation to live in "freedom"). One cannot make up such a huge amount of economic difference in such a short time period. Please compare blacks now to those in 1960 and you will see that we have come a long way. I personally don't feel that you can equally compare black Americans to any other demographic in this country except maybe Native Americans as both were the most oppressed for generations upon generations and it will take much longer than 50 years to climb out of such disparities. The fact that we are compared so often to whites is very....I can only say "silly." Whites have not been subjugated for the length of time that blacks have been in this country and Asians weren't even allowed in this country until the passage of the CRA in large numbers. These comparisons only seek to make everyone think something is "wrong" with black people instead of seeking to look at the root cause of these disparities and compare the ones going on right now to those in the past.
Also, your link is from 2012. The economy has actually gotten better on all fronts since then in such a short time with the recovery from the recession. The article even puts this blame on the recession and how whites (due to owning homes with greater value, which is due to them being the driving force in the housing market as they are the largest demographic of homebuyers and what they want will make a difference in valuation) home values has not declined versus other demographics. It is pretty interesting, the link you posted, because it actually provides some proof of my observation that white people and what they want drives housing values. White people don't want to live around any other demographic in large quantities unless they have to so those areas where wealthier and upper/middle class whites live predominately, will be worth more money and therefore, they will automatically have a higher net worth. If more black people move to those areas, their net worth will decline due to fear. Simple as that. Housing (I work in housing BTW) is similar to the stock market and is driven by attitude about specific areas and fear. It is also interesting in that your article did state that all other demographics home values suffered much moreso than whites. That is because, as stated, white people drive the housing market values based on what they desire and they overwhelmingly desire majority white neighborhoods.
Sorry for the long response above. But wanted to add that due to the driving force of whites on our country's housing market, it is imperative, IMO that black people, if they do buy in their neighborhood to invest in other areas or even in more homes in black neighborhoods. The fact that black people do prefer to live in majority black neighborhoods is in my opinion a "niche" sort of market. Areas that are known to be majority black and safe with decent schools are more desirable than poorer areas, especially here in Atlanta where I live and where we have a pretty large middle class black population. The same can be said of other major metro areas too. My husband is from Chicago and we were looking to move there and if we did, I would live in Pill Hill and that is where I would move. Many times, there is a lack of available homes in those neighborhoods and also many times those neighborhoods aren't as apt to fall victim to gentrification versus other newly safe neighborhoods where urban pioneers can claim some sort of cool street cred for moving to that particular place.
Another poster I quoted earlier mentioned this and I agree. Black people do need to invest in other options besides real estate if they so chose in order to gain additional wealth. The fact that we actually do spend less of our disposable income on housing is a plus IMO. I know a lot of white people who buy more house than they can afford in order to be "safe" (not being around too many black people or others lol). This recent housing market crash should be a warning to us to further diversify our money.
Her article probably should be titled "How Not Investing Keeps Blacks Poorer Than Whites"
The places with the highest home values- Southern California, New York, Washington D.C. etc. generally have the most poverty. High home values are only good for the people who already own homes, and then, only if they cash out and then buy/rent something cheaper, or if they tap into the equity and invest that money wisely (e.g. starting a business).
Low housing prices are good for people looking to buy and trying to establish themselves because they eat up less income. She says that home prices are lower in black neighborhoods even when accounting for income. If home prices are lower in a black neighborhood relative to income, that leaves them with more disposable income, which should leave them more money to put into equities, securities, and other investments.
She goes on to say:
It seems as that is the cause more than lack of home appreciation. Primary residence homes are generally very poor investments, and really shouldn't even be considered as such. They're very rarely a good way to generate wealth outside of certain circumstances. They're more like a forced savings account that you live in.
??? HowTF are low-wage workers supposed to invest in homes? Many renters could reduce their housing costs by buying, but if you can't buy, you're stuck paying a stiff premium to rent, which of course leaves you with fewer dollars to spend or invest.
Most blacks and Latinos don't own homes... they rent, plan 8 or whatever they have.. from getting help from the government how can they jump to a 300k home?
Southfield's problems likely result from Northland and the Detroit spill over. In the residential areas I doubt that the crime rate is that much above the national average.
Yes, Southfield is right on the border so some crime does happen, much of the crime in Southern Oakland county is committed by Detroit criminals. I drive through ever day and it's a typical well kept, boring, suburban city. I would certainly not be afraid to live there.
I do much of my basic shopping in Southfield. Most of the white people in the area seem to go up to Troy to shop, but I find many of the stores are stocked better, have better service, and they are closer. This is my opinion only, but the only reason I can see for the segregation is personal choice. Most people seem to prefer to shop around people that look like them. I believe many whites in particular get a bit freaked out when they are the minority, most black people have death with that all their lives.
??? HowTF are low-wage workers supposed to invest in homes? Many renters could reduce their housing costs by buying, but if you can't buy, you're stuck paying a stiff premium to rent, which of course leaves you with fewer dollars to spend or invest.
This article was not about low-wage workers or those who aren't able to buy a home. The article was about black people who buy homes in black neighborhoods not benefiting as much from home price appreciation as white people who buy homes in white neighborhoods.
As far as low-wage workers go, they can get an FHA loan that requires only a 3.5% down payment.
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