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Old 12-08-2007, 10:27 PM
 
Location: Looking over your shoulder
31,304 posts, read 32,776,845 times
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If there has been a “request for information” under the freedom of information act and documents have disappeared, missing or destroyed. It is warranted that an investigation be completed. An investigation will prove or disprove any crime or criminal act by one or more persons or agencies. Thus an investigation should continue, after all they shouldn’t have anything to hide from investigators if their actions were within the guidelines, policies, and practices of this government.

And to answer your question I can't identify any the criminal act the CIA is trying to cover up until an investigation is complete. RIGHT? There may not be any cover up, RIGHT? Maybe then well have a "known" truth to what happened?

 
Old 12-08-2007, 11:59 PM
 
Location: In the desert
4,049 posts, read 2,729,475 times
Reputation: 2483
The 9/11 commission was told they received all the documents that the goverment had and did not know the tapes even existed. So there was at the very least some lying going on. why?
There definitly needs to be an investigation!
 
Old 12-09-2007, 12:20 AM
 
638 posts, read 2,276,314 times
Reputation: 294
Quote:
Originally Posted by World Citizen View Post
So what if they did it? Is it the right of the American public to know every little detail of how war criminals and detainees are interrogated in our country?
Yes, especially when they tortured, which is illegal. Uh, war criminals? Don't you have to be convicted of something to earn that description?
 
Old 12-09-2007, 02:07 AM
 
129 posts, read 83,476 times
Reputation: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by World Citizen View Post
So what if they did it? Is it the right of the American public to know every little detail of how war criminals and detainees are interrogated in our country?
First off, the is a vast difference between a war criminal and a detainee. Anyone, including you & I, could become a detainee. A detainee has not necessarily been proven guilty of anything. I bet if you -God forbid- were ever mistakenly kidnapped by the CIA you'd sure like to know every little detail of how detainees are interrogated in our country.

On the other hand the label of war criminal would probably apply to many of our own politicians and policymakers. Shouldn't we be waterboarding them?.
 
Old 12-09-2007, 02:50 AM
 
Location: Wasilla, Alaska
17,823 posts, read 23,360,697 times
Reputation: 6541
Quote:
Originally Posted by AksarbeN View Post
If there has been a “request for information” under the freedom of information act and documents have disappeared, missing or destroyed. It is warranted that an investigation be completed. An investigation will prove or disprove any crime or criminal act by one or more persons or agencies. Thus an investigation should continue, after all they shouldn’t have anything to hide from investigators if their actions were within the guidelines, policies, and practices of this government.

And to answer your question I can't identify any the criminal act the CIA is trying to cover up until an investigation is complete. RIGHT? There may not be any cover up, RIGHT? Maybe then well have a "known" truth to what happened?
When you can come up with a crime being committed by the CIA, then you can claim they destroyed evidence, but until then such accusations is only slander and political grand-standing nothing more.
 
Old 12-09-2007, 10:50 AM
 
5,715 posts, read 15,014,136 times
Reputation: 2949
Question we're not talking about an everyday citizen...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeanMc View Post
First off, the is a vast difference between a war criminal and a detainee. Anyone, including you & I, could become a detainee. A detainee has not necessarily been proven guilty of anything. I bet if you -God forbid- were ever mistakenly kidnapped by the CIA you'd sure like to know every little detail of how detainees are interrogated in our country On the other hand the label of war criminal would probably apply to many of our own politicians and policymakers. Shouldn't we be waterboarding them?.
First of all, I originally quoted what was being said by the Senators on C-Span. I am not accusing anyone of a crime.

Secondly, we aren't talking about an everyday Joe that has been detained. We're talking about interrogations of top operatives of Al Qaeda. Abu Zubaydah and Mr. al-Nashiri, who is said to be the chief planner of the 2000 attack on the Navy destroyer Cole, are the only suspected Qaeda figures identified so far as the subjects of interrogations recorded on the destroyed tapes. (Copied from the NY Times article, http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/09/washington/09zubaydah.html?_r=2&hp=&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxn nlx=1197140673-Jwxk/bSyIkrZ6tXeip5urg )

I really don't want to hear about the slippery slope of allowing even one person to be harshly treated - regardless of who they are - is opening the door to past injustices practiced by others on the masses. I don't believe anyone really believes that is likely to happen in our country.

How to you suggest that we fight back against an enemy who has no rules of engagement and who's vowed to destroy us?

Last edited by World Citizen; 12-09-2007 at 11:02 AM..
 
Old 12-09-2007, 11:01 AM
 
7,138 posts, read 14,600,792 times
Reputation: 2397
I do believe, World, that way too many in this country believe it is ALL our fault these barbarians hate us. We made them that way, not their 7th century Rulebook from the alcoholic pedophile. So we just need to coddle them, tell them how sorry we are for whatever, accept their cruel and insane morality code as "normal", and let them in so that we can further "multiculturism" into our society. So as to assuage our collective guilt for existing at all.... Only problem is, we are doomed as a nation if that is allowed, and is already happening, more than we know.
 
Old 12-09-2007, 11:34 AM
 
5,715 posts, read 15,014,136 times
Reputation: 2949
Default a house divided against itself cannot stand...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilypad View Post
I do believe, World, that way too many in this country believe it is ALL our fault these barbarians hate us. We made them that way, not their 7th century Rulebook from the alcoholic pedophile. So we just need to coddle them, tell them how sorry we are for whatever, accept their cruel and insane morality code as "normal", and let them in so that we can further "multiculturism" into our society. So as to assuage our collective guilt for existing at all.... Only problem is, we are doomed as a nation if that is allowed, and is already happening, more than we know.
you're right...

There's been a lot of idealistic rhetoric in this discussion. I challenge them to really study our history... and, what's been required by many to bring us to a place where people are free.

I didn't even bother to respond when someone brought the Bible into this discussion... the next thing would be an argument about Christian ethics and a division of church and state - a Constitutional issue -

Lincoln delivered this famous speech, noted for the phrase "a house divided against itself cannot stand," when accepting the Republican nomination for U.S. Senate from Illinois in June of 1858. In July of that year he challenged his Democrat opponent, Stephen Douglas to a series of debates over admitting Kansas into the union as a slave state, and, to a large extent, over the future of slavery and of the union itself. Lincoln, of course, represented the anti-slavery position. The skill with which Lincoln debated Douglas helped catapult him to the Republican Party's nomination for president in 1860, a race which he won... (copied from http://www.nationalcenter.org/HouseDivided.html )

Where did this principal that Lincoln based his speech on come from??? It is a principal that our country is based on and one that we have lost sight of.




And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand... (Zondervan NIV Bible, Matthew 12:25)

Last edited by World Citizen; 12-09-2007 at 11:56 AM..
 
Old 12-09-2007, 03:09 PM
 
7,138 posts, read 14,600,792 times
Reputation: 2397
I think the argument would more accurately be that Christians are no better than the muslim terrorists. Kool Aid all around....
 
Old 12-09-2007, 03:41 PM
 
5,715 posts, read 15,014,136 times
Reputation: 2949
Default I obviously mis-read your last post..

I obviously misread your last post. Having re-read it, I don't agree with you.

At the risk of being OT, I'd like to respond to what you said in the last two posts. I've looked into 50 years of history between the US and the Middle East. No doubt, it's an interesting story...

There's been many wrongs on both sides... but, it seems that you are empathizing with the terrorists and giving them license to hate us and even to want to destroy us... that is exactly my last point.

America is much better than they are.

Without arguing the WMD or any bad intelligence or any other theory... I'm quite certain that if there'd been no 9/11 we would never have gone into Iraq. Al Qaeda claims to be responsible for 9/11. Osama has made his goals very clear.

The terrorists are much smarter than we are on this point. At least they clearly know who their enemy is.

Last edited by World Citizen; 12-09-2007 at 04:21 PM..
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