Climate Change...Years of Living Dangerously. (California, Ohio, socialism, interview)
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The topic is that the danger you are warning us about is one created by flawed computer models with incomplete and corrupted data, programed by technicians and guided by scientists with insufficient knowledge about the mechanics of our climate.The Farmer's Almanac is more accurate.
There is no proof that we are experiencing man-made global warming, all we have is the natural warming of the planet climbing out of the little ice-age.
Do we need to reduce pollution? Yes.
Do we need to find an alternative energy source which will replace fossil fuels? Yes.
Will we accomplish the above goals by punishing ourselves economically, increasing regulatory burdens, adding new punitive taxes and regulatory fees, so government can play crony venture capitalists? No.
Completely agree! Will also add that we would need China and India's full compliance as well.
The point is that the best scientific minds of 40 years ago were dead wrong because climate science was and is in it's infancy! To assume we've figured it all out and have mastered this subject in 40 odd years is idiocy and arrogance at it's finest. There will likely be new discoveries made which turn all of our current models and predictions on their ear, that's the nature of science. We could find out we are right on target, we could find out that it is far worse then we thought OR we could find out that we were again, dead wrong!
That is, unless science has become too political to conduct science impartially and I fear that it has.
bravo well said!!
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Originally Posted by sanspeur
It is not science that is the problem...The scientific method is self correcting, but you are correct in saying that the science could be wrong, although the chance of that is infinitesimal...It is your right wing politics that support the big fossil fuel industry that is the problem.
Face facts mr. voice of reason...(ironic name that) The planet's surface is warming, the oceans are warming, rising and becoming more acidic, many species of plants insects and animals are already stressed.....The only thing that you can be skeptical about is the cause....I'll go with the science...
wow, you do like insulting people dont you?
you are right, its not the science thats the problem, its the people that decide to wrongly interpret the data thats the problem, along with those that hold fast to a particular belief based on a faulty interpretation of the data. a true scientist does not start with a conclusion and then find the evidence to support that conclusion. they start with a theory, and then find ALL the evidence connected to that theory, and then after all the evidence is in, come to a conclusion based on ALL the evidence whether it supports or rejects the original theory.
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Originally Posted by sanspeur
I am....The earth has been warming since the last glaciation period ended about 20,000 years ago, and that warming has accelerated since 1980. Do you think global temperatures before the last ice age are important today?
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Originally Posted by sanspeur
Except that it is wrong...The last glacial period ended about 12,000 years ago, and it began warming long before then.
accelerated since 1980? you do realize that minor periods of heating and cooling happen all the time right? you also do realize that there are times when the temperatures will jump or drop quickly, and other times when they will rise and drop slowly right? you only need check the geological record, as i have told you many times, to realize this.
was the planet warming just before coming out of the last ice age? yes, thats what happen at the end of ice ages, what a concept. but according to the geological record, the global mean temperature jumped TEN degrees in 15 years. where were the SUVs then? where was the industrial base then? this was a NATURAL jump in temperature.
as for temps in the previous interglacial period, yes they are important today. they give us a look at what we can expect during this interglacial period, and if there are variations outside the margin of error, then we can suggest there might be a cause that is not natural.
for instance if during the last say 5 interglacial periods, the estimated temperature was an average of 90 degrees F, and we accept a 10% margin of error(proper because we dont have any truly accurate temperature readings, only scientific estimates), that means that the temperatures we should see are in the 81-99 degree range during this interglacial period. if we see temps above 100 degrees, or below 81 degrees, then there is an anomaly that might not be natural. but we are not seeing temperatures outside the margin of error, even if you narrow that margin of error to 5%. so what makes you think that the temperature rise today is not a natural one compared to the last 5 or more interglacial periods?
I know about Albedo. The misrepresentation that I'm talking about is one in which people imply that a lack of ice in the north will warm the planet while ignoring or denying the fact that total global sea ice is above average, which nullifies the albedo effect globally.
No, it does not. It's called Spherical Geometry...look into it.
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Originally Posted by Ceist
From the National Academy of Sciences....
....who are so incompetent they cannot even explain why Inter-Glacial Periods occur.
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Originally Posted by voiceofreazon
My opinion is the science is in its infancy and we really need to understand it better before we make bold predictions of alarmism.
Okay.
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Originally Posted by TrapperJohn
Are you actually denying the earth has been cooling over two million years with intermittent warming periods just like the one we've experienced over the last 100 years?
Yes, she is.
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Originally Posted by sanspeur
I am....The earth has been warming since the last glaciation period ended about 20,000 years ago, and that warming has accelerated since 1980. Do you think global temperatures before the last ice age are important today?
So, the Earth was created 20,000 years ago?
I'm having trouble seeing exactly what you have against Creationists.
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Originally Posted by sanspeur
Except that it is wrong...The last glacial period ended about 12,000 years ago, and it began warming long before then.
Now you're saying the Earth was created 12,000 years ago?
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Originally Posted by sanspeur
So what? This has nothing to do with the topic......
Yes....it does....oh look....the government data and peer-reviewed science that strikes fear in your heart...
It is your left wing politics that support the pseudo-science and the green jobs industry that is the problem.
You're nothing more than a Young Earth Creationist wearing a green cape.
Carry on.....stick your head back in the sand and keep pretending that the "globe is warming" and "climate is changing" in spite of the fact that this is the coldest Inter-Glacial Period on record.
When average global temperatures increase 10.8°F then it will be as warm as it was during the last Inter-Glacial Period.....which you claim never existed.
Let the Left-Wing dodging, deflecting and avoiding the facts begin in 3....2.....1...
What global cooling? That was media bull crap, not science....I remember reading about a guy who shot a 40 pound grasshopper, the point being that not everything you read is true....
Some pretty smart people were preaching global cooling in the 70's including Jerry Pournelle, who's a pretty smart guy. ALL the self proclaimed climatologists of the day were crying "the snow flakes are falling, the snowflakes are falling!"
Let's see if I can remember some other things from that time period ....
Oh yeah, the eco nut left screamed that we whould buy and install wood stoves for heating because we cant keep damming them rivers.
Then they demanded that the utility companies restructure their rates to punish heavy users of electricity so that they would use less and we wouldnt have to damn any more rivers
Then they screamed that retail outlets should stop using paper bags because using paper bags meant cutting down trees.
Incidentally, now they are whining that we cant be using those plastic bags because that means using more oil.
I'll leave it to others to explain to you the unintended consequences of every one of this agendas , which the leftist eco nuts were able to force upon us.
Completely agree! Will also add that we would need China and India's full compliance as well.
Sure, we'll just show them our flawed and incomplete, but recently updated, computer models. I'm sure once they see the predictions from those computer models that they will de-industrialize their economy, and go back to living the life of impoverished third world countries again.
Or, countries like China and India could demand billions in "climate justice" dollars from the industrialized Western nations. The only catch is that we won't have the money, cuz we are punishing ourselves, so we'd have to borrow the money from them first.
All a big lie and the liars are getting worried people have figured it out.
Not worried at all. The only deniers are the American right-wingers, and they'll deny it even as they're bursting into flames.
2.5% of the global population doesn't worry me a bit.
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