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Slavery cannot happen without an active government. Government has always been the driving force behind slavery.
Since we associate the left with active, powerful government you are wrong.
In the early U.S., the pro-"active, powerful government" parties (Federalists and Whigs) were the parties associated with anti-slavery sentiments, to the extent they existed.
The Republicans followed their lead in both respects: being anti-slavery and pro-active government.
My own, arguably ignorant, opinion is that the original Democratic party was the party of slaveholders. How many of the early Dems, like Jefferson, Madison, Monroe, Jackson, were slaveholders, despite their lofty ideals?
My own observation is that is is liberals and progressives who fought for the expansion of personal liberty, be that the end of slavery, women's suffrage, the end of Jim Crow, the end of bans on interracial marriage, and now gay rights.
If you disagree, please provide me with specific names of conservatives who supported any of these.
Slavery cannot happen without an active government. Government has always been the driving force behind slavery.
Since we associate the left with active, powerful government you are wrong.
Yep. Guuuuvvvvment has always forced people to own slaves.
Give it up. Government does what its constituents demand.
Slavery as an institution survived and thrived precisely because PEOPLE, true believers in their Southern Baptist faith, really believed that Africans bore the mark of Cain, and therefore were determined by God to be worthy of slavery.
Lincoln talking about kings... How does it even relates to XXI century?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn
You wish.
"That is the issue that will continue in this country when these poor tongues of Judge Douglas and myself shall be silent. It is the eternal struggle between these two principles -- right and wrong -- throughout the world. They are the two principles that have stood face to face from the beginning of time, and will ever continue to struggle. The one is the common right of humanity and the other the divine right of kings. It is the same principle in whatever shape it develops itself. It is the same spirit that says, 'You work and toil and earn bread, and I'll eat it.' No matter in what shape it comes, whether from the mouth of a king who seeks to bestride the people of his own nation and live by the fruit of their labor, or from one race of men as an apology for enslaving another race, it is the same tyrannical principle."
--Abraham Lincoln, Lincoln-Douglas debate, October 15, 1858 at Alton
Lincoln opposed the principle of wealth transfer, just as much as he opposed slavery. He condemned both in this quote.
In doing so, he repudiated the core philosophies of the Democrat party at the time... philosophies they still hold and regularly exercise today.
Kinda like how the ideas of Abraham Lincoln and Theodore Roosevelt have long ago vanished from the rear-view mirror of the modern Republican party, huh?
Precisely. The political parties changed in the mid-to-late 20th century, so they no longer remotely reflect their previous selves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dane_in_LA
Eisenhower would have been unelectable in today's GOP.
Today's GOP would childishly refer to Eisenhower as a RINO, and when that didn't make him go away they'd call him a socialist. Today's Republican Party cannot express with integrity the nature of anything other than its own currently-favored greed-centric view of things, and perhaps not even then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn
Looks like the Republicans of yesterday are the Democrats of today and the Democrats of yesterday are the Republicans of today.
That's closer to the mark, but I think it more accurate to ascribe to the GOP all the negative aspects of both parties of the past. As the rest of humanity continued forward, all those reactionaries and callous narcissists co-opted the Republican Party as their home.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow
do we really have 2 different parties?
Yes. You can tell because the narcissists continually whine about how compassionate their opponents are.
yes, kinda like that. Again, Lincoln was dealing with the problems of the 19th century. Roosevelt was actually a progressive who today would be much more sympatico with the Democratic party than the GOP.
They would both have adamantly opposed gun control, abortion and same sex marriage. Liberals would call them bigots today.
Lincoln talking about kings... How does it even relates to XXI century?
Lincoln was pen pals with Karl Marx, the father of Communism, so we can be pretty confident that Honest Abe would not be on the pro-business side of politics. He probably wouldn't even be able to get into politics, nowadays, except as a Bernie Sanders-style independent somewhere.
I've heard Democrats say that Thomas Jefferson was the founder of the party, and I've heard others say that Andrew Jackson was, so I solve the quandary by listing both.
The ideas of both have long ago vanished from the rear-view mirror of the modern Democratic party.
Can you imagine any Democrat saying such things today?
So much for that. Jackson was also involved in duels and other stuff that would have had a modern day dem running, screaming, and tearing her hair out. Jackson was also a big time tobacco enthusiast who smoked like a chimney.
The 18th and 19th century were different times with different issues, and to try to superimpose 21st century politics on that is just dumb.
Can you give me some links to show that those quotes are true? I've just seen wing nuts lie so frequently.
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