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Old 08-29-2014, 09:27 AM
 
Location: DC
6,848 posts, read 7,986,619 times
Reputation: 3572

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan Alaska View Post
According to google gas was $2.84 / gal here in 2010

today its $3.69 (up 12 cents since Wednesday)
Major recession do cause commodity prices to drop. Recovery from the Bush Recession has petroleum prices up from their depth. They are still lower than before the Bush Crash.

 
Old 08-29-2014, 11:14 AM
 
18,803 posts, read 8,461,211 times
Reputation: 4130
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Supply and demand does not take oil from $145 to $38. It doesn't take gas from $4.25 to $1.85. Or even more recently $4.00 back down to $3.00.



What the Fed does plays a lot bigger role than just that. Am I arguing that S&D plays absolutely no role? Of course not but S&D is not causing the volatility.
I think demands are a much stronger driver than the value of the USD, and the main player here.

Gas prices dropped precipitously in the summer/fall of 2008, due to lack of worldly demands. And certainly speculation shenanigans. But not because the USD was suddenly going tizts-up! Nor due to the Fed.

2008 U.S. Gas Price Year in Review : TreeHugger

Exchange Rate Average (US Dollar, Euro) - X-Rates
 
Old 08-29-2014, 11:48 AM
 
79,913 posts, read 44,167,332 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
I think demands are a much stronger driver than the value of the USD, and the main player here.

Gas prices dropped precipitously in the summer/fall of 2008, due to lack of worldly demands. And certainly speculation shenanigans.
So here we agree. We might disagree to the extent each plays somewhat but we agree.

Quote:
But not because the USD was suddenly going tizts-up!
I never claimed that. Just for the record.

Quote:
Nor due to the Fed.
If not for the QE programs oil is a good bit less expensive today.

Oil falls as Fed discusses QE exit

QE3: The next big driver for oil prices? - Risk.net
 
Old 08-29-2014, 12:05 PM
 
18,803 posts, read 8,461,211 times
Reputation: 4130
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post

If not for the QE programs oil is a good bit less expensive today.

Oil falls as Fed discusses QE exit

QE3: The next big driver for oil prices? - Risk.net
The 2nd link doesn't go through.

The first:

'The Fed with its power to flood the market with money to try to avoid deflation has changed the value and how we perceive the price of oil.'

Do you believe this? And how do you think the Fed/QE affects the price of oil?
 
Old 08-29-2014, 12:07 PM
 
Location: DC
6,848 posts, read 7,986,619 times
Reputation: 3572
The Fed has very little impact on the price of oil as long as inflation remains low.
 
Old 08-29-2014, 01:09 PM
 
79,913 posts, read 44,167,332 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
The 2nd link doesn't go through.

The first:

'The Fed with its power to flood the market with money to try to avoid deflation has changed the value and how we perceive the price of oil.'

Do you believe this? And how do you think the Fed/QE affects the price of oil?
It's right there in your quote.
 
Old 08-29-2014, 01:10 PM
 
79,913 posts, read 44,167,332 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCforever View Post
The Fed has very little impact on the price of oil as long as inflation remains low.
$38 before QE, over $100 after QE. Yellen makes noise about raising rates the prices fall.
 
Old 08-29-2014, 01:31 PM
 
18,803 posts, read 8,461,211 times
Reputation: 4130
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
It's right there in your quote.
That's my point. The Fed did not and has not flooded the market with money. The Feds policies have encouraged equity investments via its QE and interest lowering effect. But that in and of itself cannot be anything but a weak effect on the price of oil.
 
Old 08-29-2014, 01:34 PM
 
79,913 posts, read 44,167,332 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoonose View Post
That's my point. The Fed did not and has not flooded the market with money. The Feds policies have encouraged equity investments via its QE and interest lowering effect. But that in and of itself cannot be anything but a weak effect on the price of oil.
Yeah, O.K.

An unconventional monetary policy in which a central bank purchases government securities or other securities from the market in order to lower interest rates and increase the money supply. Quantitative easing increases the money supply by flooding financial institutions with capital in an effort to promote increased lending and liquidity.

The only problem, it didn't go to loans, it went into the markets.

Quantitative Easing Definition | Investopedia
 
Old 08-29-2014, 01:50 PM
 
Location: ATX-HOU
10,216 posts, read 8,114,186 times
Reputation: 2037
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Supply and demand does not take oil from $145 to $38. It doesn't take gas from $4.25 to $1.85. Or even more recently $4.00 back down to $3.00.



What the Fed does plays a lot bigger role than just that. Am I arguing that S&D plays absolutely no role? Of course not but S&D is not causing the volatility.
O&G is a commodity so there is speculation as well. But yes, it makes sense that gas would drop that low during the worst global recession in modern times. It didn't stay low for too long. Not sure why you refuse to believe this.
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