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They were statists who sold their goals to the gullible public as social "liberalism."
More liberal spin from 'informedconsent". The creators of welfare were/are social liberals, and you identify as such. You are doing the same thing as the other poster who claims to be liberal, while trying to redefine some aspects of US liberalism because you don't want to be associated with them. The problem is they cannot be separated, because they are the foundation of US liberalism.
Social liberalism = socialist methods to achieve liberal goals.
You've hit on why Finn_Jarber is confused. Progressives misappropriated the term liberal, which used to mean freedom, but now means big government, federal income tax slavery, and a governnent-controlled welfare state.
Excellent point and one I agree with whole-heartedly. I think, based on the OP's statements in this thread thus far, that is the primary problem with the OP's argument - a lack of understanding on his/her part.
There's a difference. I actually included rationale behind my statements
As did I - my original example. You just choose to see things only your way. I see things both ways, the emotionless and the emotional. It's that simple.
Quote:
Originally Posted by southbel
Are we talking about humanity or decision-making processes?... Stop trying to move the goal posts - stick to the subject at hand.
That's precisely what I'm doing. Your efforts to change the subject are being summarily dismissed. Get over it.
Going back to my original comment:
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU
Quote:
I leave the emotion aside completely.
That is one of the most effective ways to insulate one's self from the obligations of human decency.
Excellent point and one I agree with whole-heartedly. I think, based on the OP's statements in this thread thus far, that is the primary problem with the OP's argument - a lack of understanding on his/her part.
If you insist on calling yourself liberal, then you are free to do so, but it is strange you want to be called one, while rejecting the ideas they support. It is you who does not understand what liberalism means in US political language. Can you name one conservative representative in US politics who wants to be identified as liberal? Name one.
PS The Dems & Libs on this forum appreciate your efforts to paint them as defenders of liberty and freedom Same to you 'informedconsent'. If you are getting reputation points, it's probably coming from the libs.
As did I - my original example. You just choose to see things only your way. I see things both ways, the emotionless and the emotional. It's that simple.
Your original example? The firefighter example? The one that I destroyed by showing firefighters make logic based decisions and are actually trained to do so? Yeah, you didn't win that argument - sorry to disappoint you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU
That's precisely what I'm doing. Your efforts to change the subject are being summarily dismissed. Get over it.
When did I change the subject? I've kept on point the entire time. However, I am amused by you trying to employ a passive aggressive technique. Next time, try to be more subtle if you want it to be more effective.
Your original example? The firefighter example? The one that I destroyed by showing firefighters make logic based decisions and are actually trained to do so?
No, the one you failed to understand fully, resulting in your corrupted conclusion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by southbel
Yeah, you didn't win that argument - sorry to disappoint you.
I assure you, I'm not disappointed. You're the one trying to convince yourself that you "won" an argument through self-ratifying nonsense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by southbel
When did I change the subject?
A weird question given that I actually brought us back to the matter I raised. Let me do it again... maybe you'll stop with the childish evasions this time...
Going back to my original comment:
Quote:
Originally Posted by bUU
Quote:
I leave the emotion aside completely.
That is one of the most effective ways to insulate one's self from the obligations of human decency.
If you insist on calling yourself liberal, then you are free to do so, but it is strange you want to be called one, while rejecting the ideas they support. It is you who does not understand what liberalism means in US political language. Can you name one conservative representative in US politics who wants to be identified as liberal? Name one.
PS The Dems & Libs on this forum appreciate your efforts to paint them as defenders of liberty and freedom
Actually, I do not insist on calling myself that at all because I personally hold several positions that would not be considered socially liberal. However, there are several fiscal conservative, social liberals in my area and I understand their position. My issue is with you trying to deny something that is true. You are woefully confused as to what the term liberal actually means. I notice you've added a qualifier now, saying "US political language". Is that because you realized your previous position was incorrect and that saying social liberal is correct as defined by several on this thread? Now you want to qualify the term to try and prove your point. Sorry, the others are still correct.
Also, who are you going to vote for, Dem, or Repub? If you vote Dem you are basically saying social issues are more important than fiscal ones, and if you vote Repub, you are saying that fiscal issues are more important than social ones. How can you support both, when you only have one vote?
Do you support gay marriage? If you are going to vote Repub, then you don't support it, so why would you call yourself a social liberal, when you won't support the with your vote? If you vote Dem, then why would you call yourself a fiscal conservative?
I don't see how you can be both. Pick one, and run with it.
This is the problem with RWNJ's...
why does someone have to pick one and run with it?
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Same to you 'informedconsent'. If you are getting reputation points, it's probably coming from the libs.