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Old 10-26-2006, 05:10 PM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,728,560 times
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Yes they were meant to implant and become life but did not

And I dont consider it murder, but is it considered murder to let people die when a cure may be possible and we do nothing? Are they not moral issues with allowing people to suffer and die when we have the ability to possibly find a cure, scientist have been researching for decades a cure for these diseases without using things that wouldnt bring up a "moral issue" with little success, what makes anyone think we will find a cure if we continue to waste time on things we know do not work. I think anyone tha has doubts or "moral problems" with this really needto go see these people for themselves, then make up their mind. I think we are beating a dead horse here.

Last edited by Nea1; 10-26-2006 at 05:24 PM..
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Old 10-26-2006, 05:27 PM
 
Location: Turn Left at Greenland
17,698 posts, read 34,943,574 times
Reputation: 7940
Quote:
Originally Posted by a1m1700 View Post
Did you listen to show? or you heard the edited version by the drive by media? He said Michael J Fox was probably off his medicine on purpose like he admitted he did in front of the Senate hearings. In his own words he said he did that to she show the effects of Parkinsons. Michael J Fox was being used by the Democrats to spread a falsehood about the Republican Senator running in MO. Michael J Fox lied by saying the Republican did not believe in stem cell research when he does. He does not want tax payers money used for embrionic research. Michael J Fox was implying this Senator was stopping a cure for Parkinsons when their is no such evidence that enbrionic stem cell research will have any effect. They have had better results using regular stems cells and this is never discussed. Their are studies going on privately now using embryos and nothing has come of it. This is the same thing John Edwards tried to pull with the Christopher Reeves issue. Vote for us and Christopher Reeves will walk. This is cruel and these people will stop at nothing to play on people's emotions. Michael J Fox put himself out there to presuade the people in Mo. and he is fair game. We all want a cure for disease who wouldn't? I'm sure everyone in both parties does. But the Dems will use anything to advance themselves even vicious lies like this. It all comes back to the abortion issue again. We must use embryo's the heck with anything else right?

Keep watching the regular media and you will keep getting edited versions of Rush, just like the Michael Moore movie cut and paste and call it the truth.

Inside Edition presented the story correctly and played exactly was Rush said and presently both sides. They are hardly a conservative show.
SFW if MJ Fox went off his meds for the commercial .. HE STILL HAS PARKINSONS no matter if he's on or off meds. He's still probably going to die from the disease. He's going to leave a wife and family behind. I don't blame him one bit if he went off his meds for his political commercials. People need to see what Parkinson's is like. And even if it was the medicine he was on that made him act like that, well, people need to see that as well. You see, Parkinson's sucks and Michael J. Fox being willing to appear on behalf of stem cell research is a wonderful and brave thing to do. Don't think for a minute that he doesn't know how he is setting himself up for ridicule. And your guy Rush was there to take the bait.

Did you see the film of Rush MOCKING, YES, MOCKING MJ Fox's movements? You can't spin that in any way. He was mocking Michael J. Fox's ailment. What a classless A@#bag Limpbaugh is.

This is a new low for him and it's going to hurt the GOP more that he will ever know.
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Old 10-26-2006, 05:40 PM
 
Location: Maine
15,179 posts, read 19,822,710 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
And I dont consider it murder, but is it considered murder to let people die when a cure may be possible and we do nothing?
Again, that depends upon the cost. The end does not justify the means.

If we can find cures for all these diseases in ethical, humane ways, then yes we need to do so. But we cannot rob others of life in order to help the lives of others. Killing one group to save another group is neither justice nor mercy.

If scientists come along and say that we can cure ten people of cancer by killing ten Texas oil men, would it be right? No. Even moreso if we did it against the will of the Texans.

If we can find a way to develop stem cells without destroying an embryo, then let's do it. Giddyup. Until then, I'm not willing to countenance taking one person's life to possibly (and that's still a big possibly!) improve another's.
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Old 10-26-2006, 05:42 PM
 
Location: Maine
15,179 posts, read 19,822,710 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by domergurl View Post
Did you see the film of Rush MOCKING, YES, MOCKING MJ Fox's movements? You can't spin that in any way. He was mocking Michael J. Fox's ailment. What a classless A@#bag Limpbaugh is.
I didn't see it, but I heard about. It's disgusting, though I have to admit not altogether surprising from this guy. Classy he ain't.


Quote:
Originally Posted by domergurl View Post
This is a new low for him and it's going to hurt the GOP more that he will ever know.
Yup.
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Old 10-26-2006, 05:46 PM
 
Location: Turn Left at Greenland
17,698 posts, read 34,943,574 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
I didn't see it, but I heard about. It's disgusting, though I have to admit not altogether surprising from this guy. Classy he ain't.




Yup.
You can see it here:

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2006/1...michael-j-fox/

Olbermann is the best.
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Old 10-26-2006, 05:50 PM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,728,560 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
Again, that depends upon the cost. The end does not justify the means.

If we can find cures for all these diseases in ethical, humane ways, then yes we need to do so. But we cannot rob others of life in order to help the lives of others. Killing one group to save another group is neither justice nor mercy.

If scientists come along and say that we can cure ten people of cancer by killing ten Texas oil men, would it be right? No. Even moreso if we did it against the will of the Texans.

If we can find a way to develop stem cells without destroying an embryo, then let's do it. Giddyup. Until then, I'm not willing to countenance taking one person's life to possibly (and that's still a big possibly!) improve another's.



According to you the end doesnt justify the means, I wouldnt kill ten men they are alive and people, I dont consider 5 day old embryos people. Again they are sitting in a freezer, what should we do with them? Who are we to judge? I thought that was gods duty. We cant create stem cells they are not artificial things, you have to study the first, know the make up before you can begin to create a replacement, if we are not allowed to study, another alternative will not exist. Scientists kill many rats and mice and other things in research for cures,is that immoral as well? what should we test on? How will we ever know how to end suffering, or is it better to let them suffer because it is gods will? How do we know God would be angry? I pray you never have to suffer through these things they are devistating. Like I said beating a dead horse.
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Old 10-26-2006, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Maine
15,179 posts, read 19,822,710 times
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Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
According to you the end doesnt justify the means,
Correct.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
I dont consider 5 day old embryos people.
Why?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
Who are we to judge? I thought that was gods duty.
That depends on what you mean. It is not only our right, it is our responsibility, to intervene if another person's life is in danger. If a lunatic in my neighborhood is going around attacking people with an axe, I'm not going to say it is God's duty to stop him. I may pray for God's help and strength, but it would be my duty to step up and try to stop the lunatic.

Harvesting human embryos for research is tredding upon the very foundation of our society, that all of use are endowed with the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Life first and foremost. No one has the right to rob another of life in hopes of someday maybe possibly finding a cure.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
We cant create stem cells they are not artificial things, you have to study the first, know the make up before you can begin to create a replacement, if we are not allowed to study, another alternative will not exist.
"He who breaks a thing to find out what it is, has left the path of wisdom." --- J.R.R. Tolkien


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
Scientists kill many rats and mice and other things in research for cures,is that immoral as well?
Well, with very few exceptions, a rat is not a human being. (Sorry. Had a Young Frankenstein moment there.)
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Old 10-26-2006, 06:16 PM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,728,560 times
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Oh so we only have morals for people and not animals that are living creatures.. I am not going to take the word of the man that wrote about hobbits!! I guess surgeries for exploratory reasons to find out the problem is out then!

And Why? they have no brain or heart, or any other organs they havent developed yet. Now talk to me about using fetuses and that is a different story, as far as I know freezing for long periods may not make them viable humans
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Old 10-26-2006, 06:27 PM
 
Location: Maine
15,179 posts, read 19,822,710 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
Oh so we only have morals for people and not animals that are living creatures..
Sure we do. But there is a difference between humane treatment of animals and murder of a human. While I'm certainly not a vegetarian, neither am I a cannibal.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
I am not going to take the word of the man that wrote about hobbits!!
Why? You ever read him? He had a lot of good stuff to say. Here's another:

"Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement."


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
I guess surgeries for exploratory reasons to find out the problem is out then!
If a surgery purposely results in the death of the patient, then yes, it most certainly is out. Mengele is not an example we want to follow.

If a surgery is intended to help cure the patient and/or save their life, then of course it is the right thing to do.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
And Why? they have no brain or heart, or any other organs they havent developed yet.
But they have the potential to have all that. Our brains and hearts did not spring into being ex nihilo. They orginated in those tiny masses of cells and DNA strands. The fact that they had not yet developed did not nullify them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
Now talk to me about using fetuses and that is a different story
With that, I agree with you completely.
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Old 10-26-2006, 06:33 PM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,728,560 times
Reputation: 2096
Like I said beating a dead horse. I saw two of my loved ones die really bad deaths, I will do what is necessary to keep my kids for having to experience that with me or themselves or their children, sometimes the end does justify the means.

And yes I have read his books, just because you are an author doesnt make you an authority on all things wise it is just his opinions.

and yes the cells have potential as well as the millions that could be saved have potential, as well as the ones already suffering have potential. I dont believe embryos come before those already here suffering. I will never look one of them in the eye and say " I cant help save you because that frozen cell could be a person one day"
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