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Old 10-26-2006, 01:36 PM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,745,437 times
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But they may or may not become someone, not all do as I can attest. I have kids I know what they are worth, thats why I want this research to save them and their babies. We are not talking about making embryos for research, just using ones no one wants. I will never agree to" breeding" them in labs for this, but no reason to let unwanted ones die with no purpose, which is often what happens. and did you read it carefully, you have to face these people that are sick and tell them that you would rather let them suffer and die than allow potential positive research because you dont want to "kill embryos that no one wants" that may never become anything at all. Could you do that? Could you look at a child dying from cancer, or a 40 year old mother dying from heart disease, and say frozen embryos are worth more?
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Old 10-26-2006, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,745,437 times
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I do have to say, I think we just proved that we can have a civil debate on here without name calling, even thoughwe dont agree it has been a pleasure debating with you. My fingers hurt!!
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Old 10-26-2006, 02:25 PM
 
8,712 posts, read 3,518,332 times
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
I do have to say, I think we just proved that we can have a civil debate on here without name calling, even thoughwe dont agree it has been a pleasure debating with you.
And, it's been a pleasure to read and not having to moderate anyone. Great thread!
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Old 10-26-2006, 03:09 PM
 
Location: Maine
15,211 posts, read 19,863,210 times
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Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
But they may or may not become someone
A healthy zygote left in healthy conditions will eventually become a fetus, an infant, a child, etc. That's biology 101. Yes, accidents happen. They're tragic. But engineering death is something else.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
We are not talking about making embryos for research
That is EXACTLY what some people are talking about. If the gates are thrown wide to embryonic stem cell research, I guarantee you that it will soon become a "for profit" industry.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
just using ones no one wants.
The fact that we have humans out there that "no one wants" is in itself a tragedy and a profound failure of our society.

Again, I reiterate that I am all for finding cures for these diseases, but we must do it along ethical guidelines. As much as we want a cure, it isn't worth any price.
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Old 10-26-2006, 03:21 PM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,745,437 times
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Not all healthy zygots successfully attach to the uterus, you can implant 5 and only get one and all of which were deemed healthy. They need to word the measure as to only use donated embryos not farming options, which I believe is up to the donors to do so, not us to decide , but they should have the option to do so. Sometimes the only cure is available through options not all are happy with. I think the saving of millions out weighs the negative. I believe it is unethical to let millions suffer and die so that some that dont agree can feel good about saving some embryos. If the research proves to not be producing quality results, then we should move on, but much has already been shown to be possible. Only God can judge us for our actions.
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Old 10-26-2006, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Maine
15,211 posts, read 19,863,210 times
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Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
Not all healthy zygots successfully attach to the uterus, you can implant 5 and only get one and all of which were deemed healthy.
Are you talking about in vitro fertilization?


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Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
I think the saving of millions out weighs the negative.
Would saving a million be worth the lives of 10 million? No.
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Old 10-26-2006, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,745,437 times
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Saving more than 1 million? you would be saving 100's of millions of future generations if we can find a cure to all these diseases.. I didnt know there is
10 million donated embryos. I am talking about any fertilization really, but yes that is how embryos that are frozen get implanted.

You didnt answer my question about confronting these suffering people and telling them you were going to let them die to save frozen embryos. There was no way I could have faced my grandmother and father and say that to them, let alone a child.
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Old 10-26-2006, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Springfield, Missouri
2,814 posts, read 11,925,186 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark S. View Post
A healthy zygote left in healthy conditions will eventually become a fetus, an infant, a child, etc. That's biology 101. Yes, accidents happen. They're tragic. But engineering death is something else.
That is EXACTLY what some people are talking about. If the gates are thrown wide to embryonic stem cell research, I guarantee you that it will soon become a "for profit" industry.
The fact that we have humans out there that "no one wants" is in itself a tragedy and a profound failure of our society.
Again, I reiterate that I am all for finding cures for these diseases, but we must do it along ethical guidelines. As much as we want a cure, it isn't worth any price.
I agree with you Mark S.! I just read an article the other day that said that using stem cells causes tumors to develop in the brain as well. And, I've read that adult stem cells are more useful in research. We must be very careful opening fetuses and embryos to exploitation.
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Old 10-26-2006, 03:33 PM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,745,437 times
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Adult stem cells cannot be used for cancer, Parkinsons, alzhiemers, they are used for transplants and helping with diabetes.

Go to stemcells.nih.gov to read more. Watch out for the press it isnt always non biased.
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Old 10-26-2006, 03:34 PM
 
Location: Maine
15,211 posts, read 19,863,210 times
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Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
Saving more than 1 million? you would be saving 100's of millions of future generations if we can find a cure to all these diseases..
That's all conjecture. It's a big maybe. So far, the results of stem cell research have been pretty disappointing. It doesn't mean we shouldn't pursue it, but we need to do so along very strict ethical guidelines.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
I didnt know there is 10 million donated embryos.
As far as I know, there isn't. But that wasn't my point. My point is that the end does not justify the means. We cannot be so eager for a cure that we are willing to do anything and everything to get it. In trying to save one life (or mone million lives), we cannot end the lives of others. Whether you are talking one or one billion, you cannot purposefully take the life of another.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
I am talking about any fertilization really, but yes that is how embryos that are frozen get implanted.
Well, I think in vitro fertilization is wrong, too, but that's another argument.
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