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The seriousness of the matter is a mirror image of the flippant, derogatory manner all democrats deny there is a voting problem. In other words, voter fraud must be huge.
Here in Colorado, the Secretary of State Scott Gessler (a personal friend) started a vigorous hunt for illegal voters in 2011. He originally claimed that there were more than 16.000 illegal voters on the Colorado rolls (already a rather small number in a state with 3.6 million registered voters) and that some 5,000 of them had cast votes in the 2010 election.
But when his feet were held to the fire, Scott’s office eventually admitted it was able to identify only 80 non-citizens statewide who were on the voter rolls over the previous nine elections. That's a massive 8 ten thousandths of one percent of the more than 10 million ballots that had been cast in just those general elections (not even counting primary races or local elections held during that time).
Last July, (after years of requests) he finally referred a list of 155 suspected non- citizen voters to district attorneys across the state, recommending prosecution and issued a statement saying the list was proof that the Colorado’s election system was “vulnerable.”
The Daily Sentinel in Grand Junction followed up with those district attorneys four months later and found that none of the referrals led to a single criminal prosecutions. It turned out that while some of the non-citizen voters did cast ballots in at least one election going as far back as 2004, the vast majority of the 155 voters actually were citizens who legally had the right to vote.
So again... what is the actual problem Voter ID laws are intended to solve?
Going to not address your Mexico portion because I do not think Mexico is the most effective country to compare but your point was made. So yes, I agree that if someone is really, really determined to commit fraud, it can be done. However, I would hardly compare Mexico's voting stations to ours.
To your Colorado example. This, once again, is an issue with registration and inability to verify the voter rolls. There are two ways to register to vote in Colorado - via the national form or the Colorado specific one. The ID requirements for Colorado also include a student ID, a utility bill, or a pilot's license. Any one of these would be easy for the non-citizen to obtain. The Federal form is even easier. You just need a signature - no ID required. So you tell me. How easy would it be to verify the citizenship of the person then? They're not required to give an SSN, not required to prove citizenship at all. The governor of Colorado found out the same thing a lot of people have found. It's not easy to prove fraud when we've made it nearly impossible to do so. Would Voter ID solve that problem? No. Would Voter ID solve at least one of those problems? Yes. It would prove identity. My other issue is that we also need a better way of proving citizenship, which should make it easier to verify any instances of fraud.
Going to not address your Mexico portion because I do not think Mexico is the most effective country to compare but your point was made. So yes, I agree that if someone is really, really determined to commit fraud, it can be done. However, I would hardly compare Mexico's voting stations to ours.
To your Colorado example. This, once again, is an issue with registration and inability to verify the voter rolls. There are two ways to register to vote in Colorado - via the national form or the Colorado specific one. The ID requirements for Colorado also include a student ID, a utility bill, or a pilot's license. Any one of these would be easy for the non-citizen to obtain. The Federal form is even easier. You just need a signature - no ID required. So you tell me. How easy would it be to verify the citizenship of the person then? They're not required to give an SSN, not required to prove citizenship at all. The governor of Colorado found out the same thing a lot of people have found. It's not easy to prove fraud when we've made it nearly impossible to do so. Would Voter ID solve that problem? No. Would Voter ID solve at least one of those problems? Yes. It would prove identity. My other issue is that we also need a better way of proving citizenship, which should make it easier to verify any instances of fraud.
I think a law requiring proof of citizenship for all new registered voters isn't a terrible idea. How else old it be done short of a National ID, or state requirement that all residents have ID.
The question would be how to execute such a law without creating a barrier to new registrations.
I think a law requiring proof of citizenship for all new registered voters isn't a terrible idea. How else old it be done short of a National ID, or state requirement that all residents have ID.
The question would be how to execute such a law without creating a barrier to new registrations.
Agree. That's usually the way - the devil's in the details. I actually want to encourage more people to vote, to register, and to care. Too much apathy in this country. And, I want to also protect our voting process. I think we can find a solution which should satisfy everyone but it would require people to work together on a solution instead of automatically refusing to even discuss a solution out of hand.
Cherry picking your bolded statement there - Obamacare. See how that works? If you read the rest of what I wrote, you would see that I was clear as to why I am irritated by that viewpoint. You tell me, how does we check the citizenship of people registering and voting right now? Do some research. I think you'll be shocked because the answer is we don't in many, many cases.
Obamacare? It was enacted to solve a vast, known problem. Whether or not you agree with its methods are besides the point in this discussion.
But you want to spend millions of dollars to solve a nonexistent problem. As HD is trying to point out to you.
Quote:
You tell me, how does we check the citizenship of people registering and voting right now?
Everyone does it differently. To vote in my state, you have to have either a driver's license or give the last four digits of your SS. If you're not a citizen, you don't have an SS#.
To get a driver's license, you must show:
PRIMARY document list
US born
US Birth Certificate or Registration of Birth (Hospital issued not acceptable; foreign place of birth see Non-US Born)
US Passport or Passport Card
Non-US born Foreign Passport w/ supporting documents (See Legal Presence noted below)*
Certificate of Naturalization*
Certificate of Citizenship*
Permanent Resident Card*
U.S. Consular Report of Birth Abroad (Issued by the Department of State)
Seems pretty cut and dried to me. If you're not a citizen, you won't have those.
Not my fault if some states can't be bothered to do these things. Perhaps that's where you should be spending your tax dollars. Why not check with your own state to ease your mind on this pernicious problem?
Obamacare? It was enacted to solve a vast, known problem. Whether or not you agree with its methods are besides the point in this discussion.
But you want to spend millions of dollars to solve a nonexistent problem. As HD is trying to point out to you.
Everyone does it differently. To vote in my state, you have to have either a driver's license or give the last four digits of your SS. If you're not a citizen, you don't have an SS#.
To get a driver's license, you must show:
PRIMARY document list
US born
US Birth Certificate or Registration of Birth (Hospital issued not acceptable; foreign place of birth see Non-US Born)
US Passport or Passport Card
Non-US born Foreign Passport w/ supporting documents (See Legal Presence noted below)*
Certificate of Naturalization*
Certificate of Citizenship*
Permanent Resident Card*
U.S. Consular Report of Birth Abroad (Issued by the Department of State)
Seems pretty cut and dried to me. If you're not a citizen, you won't have those.
Not my fault if some states can't be bothered to do these things. Perhaps that's where you should be spending your tax dollars. Why not check with your own state to ease your mind on this pernicious problem?
My own state has Voter ID and defended it in Federal court - to get the ID, you must prove citizenship. It's great your state seems to care about a secure registration process. Hopefully, they also want to make sure the identity of the voter is verified via ID at the polling station.
Of course I care about what other states are doing. Some of those states can be the sole determinant of a Presidential election. Why would you not care? Seems to me that we all should.
My own state has Voter ID and defended it in Federal court - to get the ID, you must prove citizenship. It's great your state seems to care about a secure registration process. Hopefully, they also want to make sure the identity of the voter is verified via ID at the polling station.
Of course I care about what other states are doing. Some of those states can be the sole determinant of a Presidential election. Why would you not care? Seems to me that we all should.
Voter fraud likely isn’t as “rare” as most would have you believe. We demand government issued photo ID’s for many (often less important) tasks than choosing our governmental leadership. There is usually no debate over requiring ID for these purposes.
We should err on the side of caution. While voting is a constitutional right, as a side note, would anyone really try to argue though that a government issued photo ID should not be required to purchase a firearm or else their second amendment rights would be infringed?
Does any voter identification statute specify that it applies only to Blacks and Latinos?
Aren’t there some 12 million illegal immigrants in this country right now? I am certain that number of votes cast for Obama would sway the election in his favor.
Yep, nothing to worry about here!
After the 2012 presidential election, it was discovered that;
In 59 voting districts in the Philadelphia region, Obama received 100% of the votes with not even a single vote recorded for Romney. (A mathematical and statistical impossibility).
In 21 districts in Wood County, Ohio, Obama received 100% of the votes where GOP inspectors were illegally removed from their polling locations - and not one single vote was recorded for Romney. (Another statistical impossibility).
In Wood County, Ohio, 106,258 voted in a county with only 98,213 eligible voters.
In St. Lucie County, FL, there were 175,574 registered eligible voters but 247,713 votes were cast.
The National SEAL Museum, a polling location in St. Lucie County, FL had a 158%voter turnout.
Palm Beach County, FL had a 141% voter turnout.
In one Ohio County, Obama won by 108% of the total number of eligible voters.
NOTE: Obama won in every state that did not require a Photo ID and lost in every state that did require a Photo ID in order to vote. Imagine that!
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