Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 05-07-2014, 11:32 AM
 
1,262 posts, read 1,297,571 times
Reputation: 2179

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by katygirl68 View Post
You're wrong about the "crap" drugs decreasing with more options. Arguably, marijuana is far easier to obtain and the criminal sentencing is far less than crack or heroin, and yet people still use those drugs. Make them all legal and people will just use them more. Legalization won't make opiates less favored because they're highly addictive. People have been addicted to opiates for centuries. It's not going away, and will only get worse if we give them the acceptability that legalization will cause.

I think legalization of all drugs is a bad idea.
You're wrong in your assumptions. Marijuana and the byproducts of its comsumption lingers in the bodies fat tissue for a long time. The other drugs are gone from detection in a day or two.

This is why synthetic marijuana is popular, it isn't really marijuana, but it is not detectable in most drug tests. As long as marijuana is illegal, or legal BUT subject to drug testing, use will be limited. Those desiring a drug will choose other options, even more harmful ones, like alcohol.

Making them all legal won't increase their use by as much as you think, unless you're saying that you are going to use heroin, or meth, or crack cocaine, once it's legal. Well are you?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 05-07-2014, 11:36 AM
 
79,908 posts, read 44,064,775 times
Reputation: 17204
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaconowner View Post

Making them all legal won't increase their use by as much as you think, unless you're saying that you are going to use heroin, or meth, or crack cocaine, once it's legal. Well are you?
I could not tell you today where I could buy heroin, meth or crack but if it was legalized I would. One of the things I deal with is risk assessment at work. When oppertunity increases so does the risk. When justification increases so does the risk.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-07-2014, 11:39 AM
 
1,262 posts, read 1,297,571 times
Reputation: 2179
Default Not true

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
You mean the difference between decriminalization and legalization?

The arguments we are hearing about legalization, are the EXACT same arguments were used to push for decriminalization in Holland and Portugal, and the EXACT opposite happened. Drug use and crime skyrocketed. Both decriminalization, and legalization open doors increased use and increased addiction rates, which lead to increased crime and more people on welfare.

More crime and more people on welfare = negative impact on general welfare of the nation, which means The Constitution obligates the government to prevent it.
If the results obtained by states that instituted drug testing for welfare applicants has any truth to it, it's that people on welfare use drugs less than the general population. Gee do you think that might be because they can't afford it?

Making drugs legal would allow addicts to seek treatment without fear of incarceration, or losing their kids to Child Services, or losing their jobs and becoming even more of a drain on socienty than they might be now. Legalizing drugs would offer more opportunities for drug users to break the habit and all the disfunction that goes along with addiction. Making drugs legal would free up space in rehabs that are crowded with people who don't need to be there but choose or are mandated there as an alternative to incarceration.

Prison is not the answer to drug use or drug addiction.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-07-2014, 11:45 AM
 
Location: A great city, by a Great Lake!
15,896 posts, read 11,959,798 times
Reputation: 7502
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
I could not tell you today where I could buy heroin, meth or crack but if it was legalized I would. One of the things I deal with is risk assessment at work. When oppertunity increases so does the risk. When justification increases so does the risk.

Well... we had a meth lab shut down in my neighborhood last fall. Personally, I'm glad it got shut down, because of the crude methods of making it. Living in a condo where the units are connected and having a potential meth lab in that close of a proximity is a recipe for disaster! The DEA guy said they pulled out enough crap out of his unit, that it could've blown up half the street!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-07-2014, 11:50 AM
 
1,262 posts, read 1,297,571 times
Reputation: 2179
Default You didn't answer the key question...

Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
I could not tell you today where I could buy heroin, meth or crack but if it was legalized I would. One of the things I deal with is risk assessment at work. When oppertunity increases so does the risk. When justification increases so does the risk.
Let's say you COULD tell where YOU could buy heroin today. Would you go out and buy some? Would you buy more if they had a sale? Here is a risk assessment question: What is the risk, should they ever all be legal, that YOU would use? If you wouldn't, why do you think others would? Are you naturally superior?

I also do risk assessment and containment for my company, among other responsibilities. Unless I'm reading you wrong, I don't think you're a risk for addictive drug use, but maybe I'm wrong, and you are a risk. What do you say?

Opportunity is not THE key factor in risk, it is a contributing factor. No matter how opportune you made it, I have never and I will never use heroin, meth, or cocaine. I think the same is true for you, and by extension, most people.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-07-2014, 12:04 PM
 
24,372 posts, read 22,982,365 times
Reputation: 14945
I was at the grocery store and two very aged hippies were cruising down the aisle. The lady was loud and obnoxious, although not nasty. She was also dressed pretty ridiculously for a woman well into her 60s. Her old man, dressed like a biker complete with ponytail wasn't as obnoxious but still looked goofy. Both were stoned, she could barely stand up.
In the parking lot, some very seedy 20 somethings were sharing a bong/water pipe made out of a plastic quart milk jug. They reminded me of the pirates from " Pirates Of The Caribbean". Loud, laughing like hyenas, dressed like clowns down on their luck. The other week a family was in there, the teen boy reeked of marijuana and walked around in a happy daze.
I'm okay with smoking pot, legally or otherwise. Its your life, its not that destructive. All I ask is please do it at home and stay there until the effects wear off. Pot heads are incredibly annoying, as bad as drunks.
Criminals are stupid, that's why they're criminals. Either they can't make a living the hard way by working, or they can't figure out that they have practically no chance of not getting caught. They'd find some other way to make easy money, maybe robbery, burglary or credit card scams, identity theft, whatever.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-07-2014, 12:14 PM
 
Location: Taos NM
5,342 posts, read 5,086,591 times
Reputation: 6756
Let me clear some things up. Meth, opiates, Cough syrup (Dissassociative like PCP), and marijuana ALREADY are legal. You can go get them for back pain or claim ADD. And the doctors over prescribe. Yes they did give my college guy 8 ounces. That's why he was able to roll $1000 a day simply on the arbitrage between medical and legal prices. They gave my dad 100 hydrocodone pills for a knee surgery, he used about 5.

Why decriminalization but not legalalization does not work is that the demand increases because of availability, but criminal activity still results because people sell illegally to gain arbitrage profits, like they do with cigs in NY. And any time you have illegal sales and a black market, criminal activity increases. So decriminalization only increases the amount of black market since it increases both supply and demand, but does not allow supply to meet the demand at market equilibrium prices or in a legal manner.

And no, drugs do not increase peoples propensity for crime. The ONLY drug that increases violence is alcohol. Meth and PCP have proven over and over again not to increase violence. Violent people may take them, but taking them will not make you violent.

Increased accidents? probably not. You can drive on opiates, you can't drive on alcohol.

If you fail a **** test, you can't get a decent job. Therefore, addicts are excluded from the job market.

And no, black market prices do not represent equilibrium prices. It costs pennies to make drugs. So they should sell for pennies + some, which would be lower than $4 or whatever the current rate is.

So, if you have an inexpensive addiction and can get a job, its much more likely that you wont turn to crime.

Was their crime before drugs? Yes, but that's because people were starving and unemployment was through the roof in places like NYC in the 1800's. Now, people will not starve and are much more likely to get a decent job, so the crime rate is obviously going to be lower.

Finally, like I said in the beginning, if people are going to experiment, give them the best options. It's a whole lot better for a bunch of college kids to do Ecstasy on a Fri. night than get hammered drunk. But all they can realistically do today is get hammered drunk. And their free to advertise about alcohol all they want.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-07-2014, 12:22 PM
 
Location: A great city, by a Great Lake!
15,896 posts, read 11,959,798 times
Reputation: 7502
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icy Tea View Post
I was at the grocery store and two very aged hippies were cruising down the aisle. The lady was loud and obnoxious, although not nasty. She was also dressed pretty ridiculously for a woman well into her 60s. Her old man, dressed like a biker complete with ponytail wasn't as obnoxious but still looked goofy. Both were stoned, she could barely stand up.
In the parking lot, some very seedy 20 somethings were sharing a bong/water pipe made out of a plastic quart milk jug. They reminded me of the pirates from " Pirates Of The Caribbean". Loud, laughing like hyenas, dressed like clowns down on their luck. The other week a family was in there, the teen boy reeked of marijuana and walked around in a happy daze.
I'm okay with smoking pot, legally or otherwise. Its your life, its not that destructive. All I ask is please do it at home and stay there until the effects wear off. Pot heads are incredibly annoying, as bad as drunks.
Criminals are stupid, that's why they're criminals. Either they can't make a living the hard way by working, or they can't figure out that they have practically no chance of not getting caught. They'd find some other way to make easy money, maybe robbery, burglary or credit card scams, identity theft, whatever.

I don't know... I've been in the grocery store a few times and have been baked, or at least had a nice hum going (I wasn't driving BTW... the wife was) and I don't ever recall acting a fool like those that you've mentioned. Trust me my wife would have had no issue point out if I was doing so. Everybody reacts differently I suppose.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-07-2014, 12:27 PM
 
48,505 posts, read 96,675,147 times
Reputation: 18304
It didn't go way when drugs where not so popular. Motives for crimes vary if one cares to look at what even police have known for years and the basis of intent in all crimes written.then one can read that experts never test as person for mental problems when under influence for a reason. It mask results because of actions often being the same, that doesn;t matter now they got that way legal or illegal ;same as driving under influence.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-07-2014, 12:34 PM
 
Location: USA
13,255 posts, read 12,100,383 times
Reputation: 4228
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
As I noted earlier, cigarettes are relatively cheap but the illegal trade is growing as taxes increase. The government is never going to give up their profits.




Sure they do. Just as robberies happen by those looking for alcohol.
I have a friend who had an Uncle who broke into a liquor store on Sunday for a drink.


I'll let you figure that one out...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:50 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top