Alabama Chief Justice Thinks The First Amendment Only Protects Christians (government, state)

[Osito]

Why do we listen to people from Alabama? Consider the source.

[NoCapo]

Originally Posted by Bideshi

Actualy, they did. One of the major religious issues of that time was the oppression of Baptists by the Methodists. Please educate yourself a bit about that time.

I think you are a bit confused... neither of those groups are Calvinist strictly speaking.

There was a problem in Virginia where the Anglican (Episcopalian) church was supported through state taxes, and the baptists objected to funding the Anglicans. The language in the Virginia Constitution about religious freedom was written because of this conflict, and subsequently served as a model for the US Constitution.

There were Calvinists represented among the Founders, there were also Methodists, Episcopalians, Unitarians, Quakers, Deists, and militant Agnostics (maybe only one of these...). The Founders explicitly extended freedom of religion to non-Christian groups, calling for freedom of conscience extending to Jews and Muslims as well.

-NoCapo

[Bideshi]

Originally Posted by NoCapo

I think you are a bit confused... neither of those groups are Calvinist strictly speaking.

I appreciate your respectful response. Thank you. The Methodist Church is founded on Calvinist principles as promulgated by the Weslleys. The Baptist Church is not and disagrees with Calvinist doctrine on several key points. The founders and origins of the Baptist Church are lost in antiquity, but they retain some aspects of Arminianism. The Baptists in various forms pre-date Protestantism by many centuries.

[NoCapo]

Originally Posted by Bideshi

I appreciate your respectful response. Thank you. The Methodist Church is founded on Calvinist principles as promulgated by the Weslleys. The Baptist Church is not and disagrees with Calvinist doctrine on several key points. The founders and origins of the Baptist Church are lost in antiquity, but they retain some aspects of Arminianism.

I think you have that backwards... Methodists are part of the Wesleyan tradition, which is Arminian in character. Baptists are loosely Calvinist, although unless you are talking about Primitive or Reformed Baptists, they usually only maybe three-point Calvinists at best. General, American, and Southern Baptists are only Calvinist in the sense of believing in perseverance of the saints, and unmerited favor...

The Methodists were a sort of populist church in the late 1700's and were not in a position to oppress anybody. The Anglican church was used to being a part of government, and in several of the original colonies was the state religion.

-NoCapo

[rosie_hair]

Originally Posted by nononsenseguy

Slavery was not sanctioned by the Founders. It existed prior to our Declaration of Independence. The Founders understood the problem of slavery even as the Constitution was being drafted. A history lesson might help you with your confusion here. Study the arguments over the Kansas-Nebraska Act.

Who is "oppressing" other religions? Nobody I know of. But the so-called "separation clause" of the First Amendment was to protect the church (specifically the Christian church) from the government establishing one sect as the officially recognized church (as the British Government had established the Church of England). This is historical fact. That was the impetus for the First Amendment. There were many different Christian sects, and they feared the establishment by the new government of one sect as the national religion.

Again, a study of history, and especially the Constitution, would clear up your confusion.

Just to be clear on something. Are you saying everything the founders believed in at the time they drafted the constitution is eternally right?

Also, since I need a history lesson, would you please explain why we allow women to vote nowadays?

[bUU]

Originally Posted by NoCapo

There were Calvinists represented among the Founders, there were also Methodists, Episcopalians, Unitarians, Quakers, Deists, and militant Agnostics (maybe only one of these...). The Founders explicitly extended freedom of religion to non-Christian groups, calling for freedom of conscience extending to Jews and Muslims as well.

Indeed, but it goes even further than that. It was not just a matter of what was tolerated - the dominant church in many towns were churches that were distinctly anti-Calvinist. In some areas, Congregational or Unitarian churches not only were accepted, but were the "town church". That's simply a reflection of the diversity of religious thought not only allowed but fostered by our young nation.

[NoCapo]

Originally Posted by bUU

Indeed, but it goes even further than that. It was not just a matter of what was tolerated - the dominant church in many towns were churches that were distinctly anti-Calvinist. In some areas, Congregational or Unitarian churches not only were accepted, but were the "town church". That's simply a reflection of the diversity of religious thought not only allowed but fostered by our young nation.

Absolutely! The United States may have been predominantly "Christian" but that encompassed a lot of variety, from the Puritans, Anglicans, and Catholics, to the Quakers, Unitarians, various flavors of Christian mystics, and Deists. And that is just religious views springing from historical Christianity. There were Jews, Muslims, Agnostics and Atheists in the new world as well. The Founding Fathers represented this diversity, and intentionally protected everyone's freedom of conscience, not just Christians...

Beyond that, I cannot for the life of me understand why so many Christians want to co-mingle religion and government, and then in their next breath shriek about Sharia law. If you don't want government and religion mixed, don't mix them!

-NoCapo