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The burning of the flag, as well as any 'holy' book should not be made illegal. There's no reason to make it so. People getting offended at it is precisely why it must be protected as free speech. You don't have to agree with the message people are making by burning things, but you cannot take their right to do so away. Don't like it? Leave, turn the channel, go get a drink, whatever, but it doesn't give you an excuse to commit a crime as a response.
I personally believe flag burning should be illegal and it should never be protected by 1st amendment right.
[snip]
2. Some people may argue that flag burning is a form of freedom of speech and it should be protected by constitution. However, "Shouting fire in a crowded theater" is a popular metaphor for speech or actions made for the principal purpose of creating unnecessary panic. The phrase is a paraphrasing of Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.'s opinion in the United States Supreme Court case Schenck v. United States in 1919, which held that the defendant's speech in opposition to the draft during World War I was not protected free speech under the First Amendment of the United States Constitution."
[snip]
Your thoughts?
My thoughts include the fact that the controlling decision in Schenck has been obsolete since 1969.
In that year, the United States Supreme Court issued its decision in Brandenburg v. Ohio, which replaced the 'clear and present danger' standard of Schenck with the 'imminent lawless action' standard that is still operative. Indeed, when the high court ruled in Texas v. Johnson (1989) that laws punishing the burning of the American flag were unconstitutional, it specifically cited Brandenburg.
For what it's worth, the two Justices who ruled in the Johnson case and are still on the Supreme Court today were both in the majority - Justice Kennedy (who authored a concurrence to Justice Brennan's majority opinion), and Justice Scalia.
And I agree.
Speech is vastly more important than either the flag itself or the enforced idolatry of it.
Last edited by Unsettomati; 05-19-2014 at 06:16 PM..
Reason: sp.
It has nothing to do with the main premise, as is the case with your supporting arguments.
Once you go down this path of saying flags can't be burned, etc., you will quickly find yourself restricting all kinds of personal freedoms and political expression. At that point, you may as well go live in Iran or North Korea.
It has nothing to do with the main premise, as is the case with your supporting arguments.
Once you go down this path of saying flags can't be burned, etc., you will quickly find yourself restricting all kinds of personal freedoms and political expression. At that point, you may as well go live in Iran or North Korea.
It is the intelligent and true answer. You can express your opinion, but so long as it is not directly harmful to another, you have no right to stop anyone else's political expression. Sorry you don't like that, but that is how it has been by design and how it should remain.
It is the intelligent and true answer. You can express your opinion, but so long as it is not directly harmful to another, you have no right to stop anyone else's political expression. Sorry you don't like that, but that is how it has been by design and how it should remain.
I personally believe flag burning should be illegal and it should never be protected by 1st amendment right.
1. The flag, does not represent a specific idea or opinion, but rather the entire nation. Flag burning therefore does not express a legitimate form of speech and should be unlawful.
2. Some people may argue that flag burning is a form of freedom of speech and it should be protected by constitution. However, "Shouting fire in a crowded theater" is a popular metaphor for speech or actions made for the principal purpose of creating unnecessary panic. The phrase is a paraphrasing of Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.'s opinion in the United States Supreme Court case Schenck v. United States in 1919, which held that the defendant's speech in opposition to the draft during World War I was not protected free speech under the First Amendment of the United States Constitution."
Setting flag on fire can cause unnecessary panic as well. As a matter of fact, playing fire in public is very dangerous.
"Horry County Police confirm that a suspect has been taken into custody in connection with today's flag burning at St. James High School.
Horry County Police Lt. Robert Kegler identified the suspect as 17-year-old Nick Newell. According to the J. Reuben Long Detention Center website, he's charged with third-degree arson. As of Monday night he remains in jail, awaiting a bond hearing.
3. Burning flag, or religious symbol like bible, cross, or the Koran may have serious consequences.
"Jones' threatened burning of a Quran in 2010 enraged Muslims around the world.
After backing down from his planned demonstration in New York, Jones eventually burned a book at his Gainesville church, which 10 days later sparked riots in Afghanistan, where 20 people died, including seven United Nations workers."
"Stirred up by three angry mullahs who urged them to avenge the burning of a Koran at a Florida church, thousands of protesters on Friday overran the compound of the United Nations in this northern Afghan city, killing at least 12 people, Afghan and United Nations officials said."
In circumstances such as the desecration of the flag, the question raised is: How much more will America tolerate-today? In circumstances such as burning the Koran, the question also raised is: How much more soldiers, Marines, and innocent people's lives we can afford to lose? When people decide to revolt against the government and in doing so burn the flag, they fail to understand the American flag is not a representation of the government, yet a representation of themselves. These people fail to comprehend that the freedom they believe themselves to be protecting is a freedom in result of the flag they now burn.
For those who burn the Koran, Are you just saying something or are you trying to incite violence? That kind of becomes the dividing line.
It is just so ridiculous to me that "shouting fire in a crowded theater" is illegal, but burning flag (can clearly cause damage) and burning religious symbol like Koran (can clearly cause violence) are all considered legal in the United States.
Your thoughts?
All forms of expression, regardless of content, should be, must be, protected.
Burning a flag has absolutely nothing on earth to do with "shouting fire in a crowded theater." That's ridiculous claptrap that you'd hear some thug like Kim Il Whatshisface in North Korea say as justification for sending out the troops to kill a bunch of dissidents.
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