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Old 05-25-2014, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,420,928 times
Reputation: 14692

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Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
And if you really really really want to improve educational results get your crap together before you bring life into this world then teach your child to never rely on anyone but themselves and those that truly love them.

If you need a tax incentive to raise your child correctly you've already lost.
I think we should sterilize every 12 year old then offer them a reversal procedure free of charge when they are 25. It would be cheaper and I think we'd do a lot to improve not only education but society in general.
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Old 05-25-2014, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,858 posts, read 17,241,955 times
Reputation: 14459
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
, based on achieving, not breeding.
(Shrug)

Yeah, I'd buy it if we have to have it.

I'm sure scammers would find a way to manipulate it but whatever.

I guess the argument for having them year-by-year (the "breeding" option) is that parents use the $ into making the kiddies productive members of society.
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Old 05-25-2014, 01:56 PM
 
Location: East Central Phoenix
8,028 posts, read 12,183,947 times
Reputation: 9803
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
change the tax code. Do not give parents exemptions and deductions per dependent as they are growing.

Give it to them , retroactively, when the kids have completed , at minimum, some post secondary education or training. Given the $300 median wage gap b/w college and high school grads, and no doubt some gap for post secondary training completed, they would now have provided the ROI for the nation to have earned the credits for raising them correctly.
No tax credit PERIOD! Nobody should get extra money from the gov't just for popping out kids.

Quote:
Originally Posted by No_Recess View Post
And if you really really really want to improve educational results get your crap together before you bring life into this world then teach your child to never rely on anyone but themselves and those that truly love them.

If you need a tax incentive to raise your child correctly you've already lost.
Sorry, but this will never come true because it contains too much common sense ... something that politicians & bureaucrats (and many breeders for that matter) don't have much of!

Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
if you REALLY want to improve education in this country, then get the federal government COMPLETELY out of the education system in this country. its the feds that keep pushing the social programs on education. leave education to the states where it belongs.
Even better, I'd like to see education privatized and not run by any government agency, whether it's federal, state, or local. Education and health care are big businesses in this country ... therefore, they should be treated like any other large enterprise. The more government intervention you add to anything, the more costly it becomes, and there is often less in the way of productivity. Most private schools far exceed public schools on many levels, and there is no reason why taxpayers should keep funding education to subsidize what parents should be paying for themselves!
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Old 05-25-2014, 01:59 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,665 posts, read 19,904,362 times
Reputation: 7313
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valley Native View Post
No tax credit PERIOD! Nobody should get extra money from the gov't just for popping out kids.
I'd prefer no tax credits at all (for anything). We need to stop using the tax code to manipulate decisions.
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Old 05-25-2014, 02:11 PM
 
Location: East Central Phoenix
8,028 posts, read 12,183,947 times
Reputation: 9803
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
I'd prefer no tax credits at all (for anything). We need to stop using the tax code to manipulate decisions.
I would definitely agree. That's why many fiscal conservatives and Libertarians (Steve Forbes and Michael Badnarik to name two) advocate a flat tax in which everybody pays the same rate, and there would be no credits, exemptions, or deductions. People wouldn't be getting the nice refunds every year, but they would pay a lot fewer taxes during the year, which would boost their net pay and spending power. The problem is this would have a hard time passing because the IRS would be reduced in size, and that would also mean many accountants would lose business and/or be out of work.
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Old 05-25-2014, 04:56 PM
 
33,387 posts, read 34,667,389 times
Reputation: 20028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valley Native View Post
Even better, I'd like to see education privatized and not run by any government agency, whether it's federal, state, or local. Education and health care are big businesses in this country ... therefore, they should be treated like any other large enterprise. The more government intervention you add to anything, the more costly it becomes, and there is often less in the way of productivity. Most private schools far exceed public schools on many levels, and there is no reason why taxpayers should keep funding education to subsidize what parents should be paying for themselves!
now that i can get behind as well. the nice thing about that is lower taxes because the government isnt funding the schools anymore.
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Old 05-25-2014, 08:15 PM
 
17,183 posts, read 22,785,304 times
Reputation: 17472
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valley Native View Post
Even better, I'd like to see education privatized and not run by any government agency, whether it's federal, state, or local. Education and health care are big businesses in this country ... therefore, they should be treated like any other large enterprise. The more government intervention you add to anything, the more costly it becomes, and there is often less in the way of productivity. Most private schools far exceed public schools on many levels, and there is no reason why taxpayers should keep funding education to subsidize what parents should be paying for themselves!
http://www.amazon.com/The-Public-Sch...hool+advantage

Quote:
For decades research showing that students at private schools perform better than students at public ones has been used to promote the benefits of the private sector in education, including vouchers and charter schools—but much of these data are now nearly half a century old. Drawing on two recent, large-scale, and nationally representative databases, the Lubienskis show that any benefit seen in private school performance now is more than explained by demographics. Private schools have higher scores not because they are better institutions but because their students largely come from more privileged backgrounds that offer greater educational support. After correcting for demographics, the Lubienskis go on to show that gains in student achievement at public schools are at least as great and often greater than those at private ones. Even more surprising, they show that the very mechanism that market-based reformers champion—autonomy—may be the crucial factor that prevents private schools from performing better. Alternatively, those practices that these reformers castigate, such as teacher certification and professional reforms of curriculum and instruction, turn out to have a significant effect on school improvement.
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Old 05-25-2014, 08:22 PM
 
48,505 posts, read 96,556,342 times
Reputation: 18301
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valley Native View Post
I would definitely agree. That's why many fiscal conservatives and Libertarians (Steve Forbes and Michael Badnarik to name two) advocate a flat tax in which everybody pays the same rate, and there would be no credits, exemptions, or deductions. People wouldn't be getting the nice refunds every year, but they would pay a lot fewer taxes during the year, which would boost their net pay and spending power. The problem is this would have a hard time passing because the IRS would be reduced in size, and that would also mean many accountants would lose business and/or be out of work.
but they still advocate deductions for indivduals by number.The real key to education is getting government out of it and getting rid of those who do not want to learn holding back those who do and wasting money. They can then be given choice of learning a skill.
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Old 05-25-2014, 08:45 PM
 
Location: Somewhere extremely awesome
3,130 posts, read 3,056,511 times
Reputation: 2472
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
change the tax code. Do not give parents exemptions and deductions per dependent as they are growing.

Give it to them , retroactively, when the kids have completed , at minimum, some post secondary education or training. Given the $300 median wage gap b/w college and high school grads, and no doubt some gap for post secondary training completed, they would now have provided the ROI for the nation to have earned the credits for raising them correctly.
Do you want to hear my highly cynical answer about really wanting to improve educational results?
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Old 05-25-2014, 08:46 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,665 posts, read 19,904,362 times
Reputation: 7313
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharks With Lasers View Post
Do you want to hear my highly cynical answer about really wanting to improve educational results?
sure
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