Why the United States, and North Carolina by Extension, is Undemocratic

[Egbert]

In NC we have run off elections. In North Carolina if no candidate gets more then 40% of the vote the top to candidates go to a run off and all others are eliminated giving people the chance to vote again. NC is not purely first past the post.

As to proportion representation, I think that is a bad idea since it creates unstable governments wherever it is used. Just take a look at Israel. They use it and they cannot get a government with fewer then 3-4 parties in it and if one leaves you need new elections. No thanks.

[WaldoKitty]

Originally Posted by faabala

The electoral college this there because we are a representative republic not a democracy. Who wants the two or three most populous states deciding every election? What stupid idea. You do know we are union of sovereign states don't you?

That wasn't the purpose for the USA's electoral college. They created the electoral college was a compromise between the South & North to allow the slave states to count the slave population towards picking the President & sending members to Congress. North states said they should not be counted at all.

So they came up with the electoral college, where representation was based on population determined every 10 years by census. A slave counted as 3/5ths a person. It was known as the 3/5ths compromise.

This system replaced the previous Articles of Confederation where each state simply got one vote. George Washington was elected under the one state one vote system.


------

A Democracy vs a Republic is this. In a true Democracy citizens vote on any issue. There is no elected government. In a Republic, representatives are elected to represent their constituents. They can be elected by direct vote.

[WaldoKitty]

Originally Posted by Egbert

....
As to proportion representation, I think that is a bad idea since it creates unstable governments wherever it is used. Just take a look at Israel. They use it and they cannot get a government with fewer then 3-4 parties in it and if one leaves you need new elections. No thanks.

You are describing a parliamentary form of a republic where there is a Prime Minister vs President. This system is used by many countries in Europe, including the UK, where there has been a stable government for a very long time.

[Egbert]

Originally Posted by WaldoKitty

You are describing a parliamentary form of a republic where there is a Prime Minister vs President. This system is used by many countries in Europe, including the UK, where there has been a stable government for a very long time.

Actually I am not at all describing that. I am describing proportional representation issues as a method of carrying out elections vs the first past the post system of elections. You know the difference right? A parliamentary system vs a presidential system is how elected officials govern a republic. Proportional representation vs first past the post is how elected officials are elected. They to may seem similar in that they both involve republics but they are apples and oranges in terms of what they mean.

For example
The UK is a parlimentary system with a first past the post election system.
The US is a presidential system with a first past the post election system.
Israel is a parlimentary system with proportional representation.
Brazil is a presidential system with proportional representation.

The point being is whether a country uses a parliamentary system or a presidential system is irrelevant to whether they use first past the post elections or proportional representation.

[WaldoKitty]

Originally Posted by Egbert

Actually I am not at all describing that. I am describing proportional representation issues as a method of carrying out elections vs the first past the post system of elections. .....

I do know the difference. Where you got it wrong is blaming the collapse of a government and subsequent required new elections as a result of it. That is nothing more than politics and the mechanics of a parliamentary system. It has nothing to do with the method used to pick MPs.