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There have also been very low numbers of tornadoes both this year and last.
However, a disproportionate number have been very strong.
And there were a staggering number of tornadoes in 2011, many of which were deadly - Joplin, Tuscaloosa.
I am dang tired of climate change denies cherry-picking their data and trying to claim that "proves" anything. This past winter was very cold on the East Coast of the US, so "clearly" we're experiencing "global cooling" - it's the same level of idiotic logic.
Here are the facts:
1) The Earth overall is warming and the climate is changing. This happens all the time in history, though recent trends point to human influence. But even without human influence, our civilization is poorly equipped to handle these changes, despite our technology. In short, there is no such thing as "climate change for the better" given how fragile our civilization is. More storms or fewer, warmer weather or cooler, more or less rain - all can lead to problems and shift things away from what is established and thus cause dire problems.
2) Some of that warming can be attributed to CO2 buildup linked to the burning of fossil fuels. We can debate how much is caused by that, sure, but refusing to take action because we don't know the exact percentage makes as much sense as staying *inside* a house as it burns down until the exact cause of the fire is determined.
3) Even without AWG, fossil fuels are not infinite. Why do you think they are using fracking now, despite the ecological damage and the relatively poor energy in to energy out ratio? Because we've run out of easy to obtain fossil fuels. Time is running out on fossil fuels.
Those are the facts. We can either find ways to shift away from finite fossil fuel reserves and reduce CO2 emissions, or we can keep heading on our current course... right up until the day the last fracking field runs dry, the lands bake in droughts and drown under storms, and our civilization dies because idiots refused to look at the facts and act since doing so might have cost them a bit of money... money that will have no value in a dead civilization.
This past winter was very cold on the East Coast of the US, so "clearly" we're experiencing "global cooling" - it's the same level of idiotic logic.
And yet none of the alarmist scientists predicted colder winters as the result of global warming, in fact, they predicted the opposite.
"within a few years winter snowfall will become “a very rare and exciting event”.
“Children just aren’t going to know what snow is,”
(written around 14 years ago)
Dr David Viner, a senior research scientist at the climatic research unit (CRU) of the University of East Anglia,
When their predictions invariably fail to materialize, they change the goalposts and now colder winters = global warming or the lack of warming is "buried in the ocean"
They are never held accountable for past failed predictions, yet they still expect and demand their future predictions are given heed.
Well when Bush cranked up the hurricane machine and fired off Katrina to kill all the blacks in Lu EEsiana it overheated the thing and she went down. Since then Cheney and his boys have been trying to forge the replacement parts in the bowels of Halliburton. When they get the dreaded machine back online we are all doomed.
come on ku, if you are going to say we are doomed, then get it right, like bender in futurama;
If the GW alarmists are right that human activity is changing the climate, how do we know if the net effect of that change is positive or negative?
At the very lease GW alarmists have overstated the effect of climate change from when I was a child all of the huge effects just haven't occurred. Also, why don't the Alarmists acknowledge that the global climate has changed and will change regardless of human activity?
that is a good question, the last time there was a warming period, humanity flourished, and it was warmer than today. now somehow humanity is going to die?
as to your second question, the alarmists cant acknowledge anything that might be positive, or the fact that climate change is both normal and natural, because it doesnt fit their agenda, which is government control of the worlds economy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisFromChicago
Seems an odd question. . .I mean you think that if we significantly change the climate. . .we will end up on the winning side? That seems very unlikely - since the climate has been signficantly responsible for our current success. . it stands to reason that a change would be negative.
Though a change will have winners and losers. . .
I suspect the United States will do okay. . .unless the change drives famine in China/India/Africa. . .war could be the result
Go to on demand, find the latest Cosmos (last night) and watch it. They go through the carbon change. . how much volcanoes, how much sun, etc . . and do a very good job at explaining why only man made emissions are the primary driver
of course this is science, so . . observations, evidence, and facts. If your a counter-narrative conspiracy theoriest. . .i'm sure youll dismiss Cosmos on Fox as part of Obama's evil plot or something.
i wont dismiss cosmos as an evil plot, but i will say that anything they suggest might happen in the future is all based on speculation, and their agenda.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambler123
And there were a staggering number of tornadoes in 2011, many of which were deadly - Joplin, Tuscaloosa.
I am dang tired of climate change denies cherry-picking their data and trying to claim that "proves" anything. This past winter was very cold on the East Coast of the US, so "clearly" we're experiencing "global cooling" - it's the same level of idiotic logic.
Here are the facts:
1) The Earth overall is warming and the climate is changing. This happens all the time in history, though recent trends point to human influence. But even without human influence, our civilization is poorly equipped to handle these changes, despite our technology. In short, there is no such thing as "climate change for the better" given how fragile our civilization is. More storms or fewer, warmer weather or cooler, more or less rain - all can lead to problems and shift things away from what is established and thus cause dire problems.
2) Some of that warming can be attributed to CO2 buildup linked to the burning of fossil fuels. We can debate how much is caused by that, sure, but refusing to take action because we don't know the exact percentage makes as much sense as staying *inside* a house as it burns down until the exact cause of the fire is determined.
3) Even without AWG, fossil fuels are not infinite. Why do you think they are using fracking now, despite the ecological damage and the relatively poor energy in to energy out ratio? Because we've run out of easy to obtain fossil fuels. Time is running out on fossil fuels.
Those are the facts. We can either find ways to shift away from finite fossil fuel reserves and reduce CO2 emissions, or we can keep heading on our current course... right up until the day the last fracking field runs dry, the lands bake in droughts and drown under storms, and our civilization dies because idiots refused to look at the facts and act since doing so might have cost them a bit of money... money that will have no value in a dead civilization.
our civilization is actually rather robust. look at what we have gone through in the last 250 years;
a revolutionary war, a civil war that split our country, and we still suffer from wounds to this day, two world wars, including the use of nuclear weapons, as well as hundreds of regional wars around the world, and terrorist groups that pop up do as much damage as possible, and eventually go away. we have survived all that and more.
as for the rest, poppycock. whether we tax the people to death to redistribute that wealth or not, we still face all the bad things you indicated. its not like placing an economy killing tax on the worlds populace is suddenly going to prevent the things you suggested from happening. and since we are going to have to deal with those things anyway, why add the tax? do you really want to make things even harder on the people? is that your quest?
our civilization is actually rather robust. look at what we have gone through in the last 250 years;
a revolutionary war, a civil war that split our country, and we still suffer from wounds to this day, two world wars, including the use of nuclear weapons, as well as hundreds of regional wars around the world, and terrorist groups that pop up do as much damage as possible, and eventually go away. we have survived all that and more.
as for the rest, poppycock. whether we tax the people to death to redistribute that wealth or not, we still face all the bad things you indicated. its not like placing an economy killing tax on the worlds populace is suddenly going to prevent the things you suggested from happening. and since we are going to have to deal with those things anyway, why add the tax? do you really want to make things even harder on the people? is that your quest?
If you honestly think petty little wars are comparable to what we will be facing, than I pity your lack of understanding. Also, your heavy-handed and ignorant dismissal of the problems don't make them go away.
Finally, if the only solution you can imagine is raising taxes, than I pity your lack of vision and creativity as well. Did I say "raises taxes to fix global warming?" No, I did not. That is nothing but the usual defense of the do-nothings who simple are too stuck in their ways to imagine anything else. The answer is technology, not taxes. Look at how far our civilization has come in only a few centuries. To claim that we cannot overcome this challenge is ridiculous - we CAN do it, but only if people want to... unfortunately, what is causing the problems now is lack of will, not lack of ability.
And yet none of the alarmist scientists predicted colder winters as the result of global warming, in fact, they predicted the opposite.
"within a few years winter snowfall will become “a very rare and exciting event”.
“Children just aren’t going to know what snow is,”
(written around 14 years ago)
Dr David Viner, a senior research scientist at the climatic research unit (CRU) of the University of East Anglia,
When their predictions invariably fail to materialize, they change the goalposts and now colder winters = global warming or the lack of warming is "buried in the ocean"
They are never held accountable for past failed predictions, yet they still expect and demand their future predictions are given heed.
*sigh*
Has it ever occurred to you that climate science is a new field and we're still learning how to make predictions? Good lord - let me guess... you consider all scientists and engineers frauds as well because the flying cars and moon bases that were predicted years ago didn't materialize, right?
Finally, even though we're still learning how to predict the effects of rising temperatures, that does not change the fact that the temperatures are rising. But, sure - let's keep pretending nothing is happening and everything is okay... which makes as much sense as ignoring a tornado warning because the forecaster didn't say exactly which street in your subdivision the tornado was going to demolish... blind ignorance and nit-picking debates are not preparedness strategies.
Florida is not underwater yet.
Fact is, Other than powerful hurricanes, Floridas coastline has not changed since the Spaniards hit the shores and started mapping it. 800 years ago.
Actually. the Florida Coastline would look different if it was not for the Corps of Engineers constantly re-sanding the beaches after storms and hurricanes. It's not an uncommon sight to see re-sanding vessels off the Florida coast in a constant battle to contain beach erosion from rising waters.
If you honestly think petty little wars are comparable to what we will be facing, than I pity your lack of understanding. Also, your heavy-handed and ignorant dismissal of the problems don't make them go away.
Finally, if the only solution you can imagine is raising taxes, than I pity your lack of vision and creativity as well. Did I say "raises taxes to fix global warming?" No, I did not. That is nothing but the usual defense of the do-nothings who simple are too stuck in their ways to imagine anything else. The answer is technology, not taxes. Look at how far our civilization has come in only a few centuries. To claim that we cannot overcome this challenge is ridiculous - we CAN do it, but only if people want to... unfortunately, what is causing the problems now is lack of will, not lack of ability.
just the fact that you think our civilization is fragile shows that you have no faith in humanity. we have suffered for a long time to get where we are today, and unless a super volcano erupts in the near future, or a huge meteor strikes the earth in the near future, our civilization is not going down anytime soon. as for dismissing the problems we face, i am in no way doing that at all, i just recognize that we as human beings have overcome a great deal since man first started walking on this planet, and that we have the technology today to overcome even more. i have faith in humanity, you dont.
just the fact that you think our civilization is fragile shows that you have no faith in humanity. we have suffered for a long time to get where we are today, and unless a super volcano erupts in the near future, or a huge meteor strikes the earth in the near future, our civilization is not going down anytime soon. as for dismissing the problems we face, i am in no way doing that at all, i just recognize that we as human beings have overcome a great deal since man first started walking on this planet, and that we have the technology today to overcome even more. i have faith in humanity, you dont.
Then I have no idea what you're disagreeing with me about. The climate is changing - fact, regardless of who is causing it - and fossil fuels are not limitless. Logic would dictate taking action now vs. waiting for the last minute and hoping our civilization can withstand yet another blow to the head. Again, note that I support technology overcoming our limitations, not simply trying to "tax climate change away," which is a failure and still does nothing to address the two key facts: handling climate change (regardless of the source) and dealing with the limited supply of fossil fuels.
And there were a staggering number of tornadoes in 2011, many of which were deadly - Joplin, Tuscaloosa.
As I mentioned in a later post. My main point was that the weather is just not really anywhere near "average" more often.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambler123
I am dang tired of climate change denies cherry-picking their data and trying to claim that "proves" anything. This past winter was very cold on the East Coast of the US, so "clearly" we're experiencing "global cooling" - it's the same level of idiotic logic.
Here are the facts:
1) The Earth overall is warming and the climate is changing. This happens all the time in history, though recent trends point to human influence. But even without human influence, our civilization is poorly equipped to handle these changes, despite our technology. In short, there is no such thing as "climate change for the better" given how fragile our civilization is. More storms or fewer, warmer weather or cooler, more or less rain - all can lead to problems and shift things away from what is established and thus cause dire problems.
2) Some of that warming can be attributed to CO2 buildup linked to the burning of fossil fuels. We can debate how much is caused by that, sure, but refusing to take action because we don't know the exact percentage makes as much sense as staying *inside* a house as it burns down until the exact cause of the fire is determined.
3) Even without AWG, fossil fuels are not infinite. Why do you think they are using fracking now, despite the ecological damage and the relatively poor energy in to energy out ratio? Because we've run out of easy to obtain fossil fuels. Time is running out on fossil fuels.
Those are the facts. We can either find ways to shift away from finite fossil fuel reserves and reduce CO2 emissions, or we can keep heading on our current course... right up until the day the last fracking field runs dry, the lands bake in droughts and drown under storms, and our civilization dies because idiots refused to look at the facts and act since doing so might have cost them a bit of money... money that will have no value in a dead civilization.
Frankly, I agree with most of this, though I'm not so sure things will continue to warm. I think we're making a negative impact but I think we may cause cooling the more ice starts to melt. I also don't think fracking is so terrible.
Also, the cold winter wasn't just on the East Coast, it was pretty much everywhere across the country but the West Coast.
That humans are having an influence is theory, not fact.
Please stop quoting theories as facts.
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