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Old 06-02-2014, 10:21 AM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
10,581 posts, read 9,783,616 times
Reputation: 4174

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidkaos2 View Post
It works because it is true. Government never gets smaller. Once you give up a freedom, you have no way to get it back.
The American colonists got a number of freedoms back in the period around 1775-1780.

And they only had to shoot a moderate number of government agents and troops to do it.
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Old 06-02-2014, 10:21 AM
 
3,216 posts, read 2,231,180 times
Reputation: 1224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
Smoking bans, metal detectors and seat belts were all commons sense laws put in place for safety and health, giving up those freedoms were well worth the price, same with gun control.


How about we limit your freedom of speech as well?
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Old 06-02-2014, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Palo Alto
12,149 posts, read 8,418,303 times
Reputation: 4190
We need stricter Bloomberg laws - society would be safer.
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Old 06-02-2014, 12:53 PM
 
Location: Jacksonville, FL
11,143 posts, read 10,711,121 times
Reputation: 9799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
Smoking bans, metal detectors and seat belts were all commons sense laws put in place for safety and health, giving up those freedoms were well worth the price, same with gun control.
Hitler's persecution of the Jews was done "for the greater good".

The internment of Japanese Americans in WW2 was done "for the greater good".

Everything that Saddam Hussein did as a despotic, psychotic dictator was done "for the good of the people".

When are you going to wake up and realize that the government - any government - does not have your best interests at heart? We don't need any more laws designed to protect us from ourselves and cause us to fear the government. What we need to go back to is a government - or at least government officials - which fears the people's reaction to their stupidity. That is what made this country great for 200 years.
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Old 06-02-2014, 01:53 PM
 
Location: Long Island
57,284 posts, read 26,206,502 times
Reputation: 15643
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimRom View Post
Hitler's persecution of the Jews was done "for the greater good".

The internment of Japanese Americans in WW2 was done "for the greater good".

Everything that Saddam Hussein did as a despotic, psychotic dictator was done "for the good of the people".

When are you going to wake up and realize that the government - any government - does not have your best interests at heart? We don't need any more laws designed to protect us from ourselves and cause us to fear the government. What we need to go back to is a government - or at least government officials - which fears the people's reaction to their stupidity. That is what made this country great for 200 years.
How do we go from seat belts being reasonable legislation to Hitler and Saddam Hussein, no one is taking the big leap. The world has changed, reasonable and what amount to very minor laws are a benefit to society. This is no longer the 1700's but some seem to think that nothing should ever change.
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Old 06-02-2014, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Long Island
57,284 posts, read 26,206,502 times
Reputation: 15643
Quote:
Originally Posted by toryturner View Post
How about we limit your freedom of speech as well?
It should be limited if it has a negative impact on your health.
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Old 06-02-2014, 01:56 PM
 
24,832 posts, read 37,344,316 times
Reputation: 11538
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
It should be limited if it has a negative impact on your health.
Then you would agree hunter should keep their guns???

They hunt to eat.
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Old 06-02-2014, 01:58 PM
 
3,216 posts, read 2,231,180 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
It should be limited if it has a negative impact on your health.


I don't think that stipulation was included in either the First or the Second Ammendment.
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Old 06-02-2014, 02:08 PM
 
Location: The Woods
18,358 posts, read 26,495,840 times
Reputation: 11351
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
How do we go from seat belts being reasonable legislation to Hitler and Saddam Hussein, no one is taking the big leap. The world has changed, reasonable and what amount to very minor laws are a benefit to society. This is no longer the 1700's but some seem to think that nothing should ever change.
Governments have become more dangerous and racked up higher body counts since the 1700's, so there's more reasons than then to have a well armed population.
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Old 06-02-2014, 02:24 PM
 
Location: Jacksonville, FL
11,143 posts, read 10,711,121 times
Reputation: 9799
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
How do we go from seat belts being reasonable legislation to Hitler and Saddam Hussein, no one is taking the big leap. The world has changed, reasonable and what amount to very minor laws are a benefit to society. This is no longer the 1700's but some seem to think that nothing should ever change.
How do we go from "the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" to "laws infringing upon the right of the people to keep and bear arms are acceptable"? Quite frankly, my leap of logic seems a lot less precarious than yours does.

In case you actually missed the analogy and aren't being purposely obtuse, my point was that throughout history different civilizations have accepted what seemed to be quite "reasonable" restrictions upon their freedoms and the ultimate outcome was usually something that they didn't care for.

Hitler is a great analogy for this point, because the German people threw massive support behind him before they realized that he was one wave short of a shipwreck. He pursued a lot of policies that were "for the good of the people" but eventually led to genocide, starvation, and the destruction of pretty near the entirety of what was, prior to Hitler, a fairly advanced country. It took them decades to come back to some semblance of their former power, and even that semblance was pretty thin.

Hussein is another great example, because he was quite possibly even more sociopathic than Hitler was - and that's saying something. Saddam made the vertically challenged, funny mustache wearing, self-loathing, half-Jewish but Jewish persecuting despotic Hitler look like a model citizen, in fact. Yet, I've heard people as recently as a couple of weeks ago say that we should have left Saddam in power because he had control of his people. The man should probably have been drowned at birth, quite frankly, or prevented with contraception, but there are actually people who believe that he was a good thing for Iraq.

The internment of Japanese Americans "for their own good and the good of the nation," however, is probably the best example of what happens when our government oversteps its bounds in pursuit of "perfectly reasonable" actions which benefit the "greater good." Our government destroyed the lives of tens of thousands of individuals for no other reason than that they looked like the people who attacked Pearl Harbor, and they did it based on such a specious piece of legislation that the Supreme Court actually put a halt to the practice. Of course, that halt came about 4 years to late for some of them, and much too late to avoid a cost of $1.6 BILLION to us, the taxpayers, but it did finally come to a halt.
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