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Leave them to their own devices and let the chips fall where they fall.
I'm not interested in a solution. I just want us to stop meddling.
"Grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference."
Most of the historical U.S. interference has nothing to do with freeing people and changing cultures. It has all to do with advancing the interests of select sectors, certain corporations within the defense industry, a bone to those Christians that wait for the second coming and goosing the economy with accepted deficit spending.
Iraq is the $Trillion War, not including the ongoing cost of VA and disability, that will persist for serious decades into the future. No one can account for the money that has been spent, regardless of who sat/sits the oval or held/holds the majority.
I trend neutral on the Paul father and son, with the exception of their positions on the beneficiaries of U.S. interference.
I don't owe Israel ( or any other nation) a damn dime. If they need more weapons, they need to raise taxes.
When you can dictate that only Harrier funds the aid and not you, then you will have a valid argument.
Harrier funds gay marriage licenses here in California - and that is only because an openly gay judge forced his decision on the people of California, who twice clearly upheld marriage as a union between a man and a woman.
Are you ready to say that Harrier should choose that his tax dollars not fund such a travesty?
i really think they want to live in cavemen days, they want to kill each other. they don't want anything to do with society. so I say let them kill each other
I bet all the millions of terrified displaced families in Syria love that option.
Too bad, but that's their plight, not mine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harrier
When you can dictate that only Harrier funds the aid and not you, then you will have a valid argument.
Harrier funds gay marriage licenses here in California - and that is only because an openly gay judge forced his decision on the people of California, who twice clearly upheld marriage as a union between a man and a woman.
Are you ready to say that Harrier should choose that his tax dollars not fund such a travesty?
You're funding licenses in America for Americans.
That ain't got squat to do with me sending my tax money to Israel to purchase weapons.
If Israel needs weaponry, they can buy it from us at market prices. I don't wanna GIVE them anything. Not even a single bullet.
I don't think anyone can teach or force anyone to want peace in their lives. In my opinion the issues that prevent peace in the Middle East are too complex for us to understand.
I am not saying that I don't want peace for people in the Middle East, I'm just saying that they have to want it for themselves.
Look, they want peace. It is really ignorant for you to believe they don't want peace. It would be like saying that George Washington or Thomas Jefferson didn't want peace because they didn't just roll over and let Britain rule them.
The problem isn't that they don't want peace. The problem is that, powerful men and their political and economic aspirations are leaving those countries in ruin.
It is thus "power" which has corrupted and destroyed, just as power always does.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brownbagg
i really think they want to live in cavemen days, they want to kill each other. they don't want anything to do with society. so I say let them kill each other
You just don't understand what is going on.
First, there isn't much of a difference between what is going on in the Middle-East today, and what had been going on in Europe all the way up to World War two. And to some extent, was still happening in parts of Europe through the end of the Cold War. Or for that matter, is still happening in parts of Europe today(Ukraine).
The problem in the Middle-East is that, the borders of those countries don't make any sense. And you have governments which are ethnocentric and exclusive. All trying to dominate a massive bounty of natural resources. Each refusing to give anything up to the others.
Imagine a United States that was 1/3rd Muslim, 1/3rd Christian, and 1/3rd Jewish. And the wealth of the nation was almost entirely derived from nationalized oil and gas. Do you really think we would all be sharing all nicey nice?
Either the Middle-East needs more decentralizing, or it needs more secession. And we need to get the hell out.
Look, they want peace. It is really ignorant for you to believe they don't want peace. It would be like saying that George Washington or Thomas Jefferson didn't want peace because they didn't just roll over and let Britain rule them.
The problem isn't that they don't want peace. The problem is that, powerful men and their political and economic aspirations are leaving those countries in ruin.
It is thus "power" which has corrupted and destroyed, just as power always does.
You just don't understand what is going on.
First, there isn't much of a difference between what is going on in the Middle-East today, and what had been going on in Europe all the way up to World War two. And to some extent, was still happening in parts of Europe through the end of the Cold War. Or for that matter, is still happening in parts of Europe today(Ukraine).
The problem in the Middle-East is that, the borders of those countries don't make any sense. And you have governments which are ethnocentric and exclusive. All trying to dominate a massive bounty of natural resources. Each refusing to give anything up to the others.
Imagine a United States that was 1/3rd Muslim, 1/3rd Christian, and 1/3rd Jewish. And the wealth of the nation was almost entirely derived from nationalized oil and gas. Do you really think we would all be sharing all nicey nice?
Either the Middle-East needs more decentralizing, or it needs more secession. And we need to get the hell out.
Good post. I agree with everything except the last sentence
These people (the majority / normal populace) want peace just like any other person in the word.
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