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Public Policy and Laws - there's a lot to say about how public policy "helps" and hurts the poor. More often than not public policy that is lauded as good for the poor is in fact more deterimental to their existence. Policies such as welfare, medicad, social security, or any other benefit transfer program. It reduces the incentive for the poor to rely on self sufficiency, breaks up marriage, and creates children who are dependant on government for survival. However, i'm not saying that some of these programs should be thrown to the curb, but a more effective way of implementing them should be considerd.
No one ever really mentions this when they talk about the poor and benefits but I think it needs to be put into the equation: Elderly who are "asset rich" but "income poor" and qualify for all kinds of government benefits. I had a relative who died a couple of years ago. She left behind a $2 million estate -- yet she qualified for all kinds of government freebies because of the way she structured her estate. Her income put her at the poverty level so even though she had loads of cash in the bank and owned several properties, she got so much free stuff it was crazy.
No one ever really mentions this when they talk about the poor and benefits but I think it needs to be put into the equation: Elderly who are "asset rich" but "income poor" and qualify for all kinds of government benefits. I had a relative who died a couple of years ago. She left behind a $2 million estate -- yet she qualified for all kinds of government freebies because of the way she structured her estate. Her income put her at the poverty level so even though she had loads of cash in the bank and owned several properties, she got so much free stuff it was crazy.
I bought my home off a lady who was truly "poor". The problem with her was the house was worth $70K, but she wanted to move into a senior citizens building where she was not allowed to have more then $10K in the bank.
Guess what, house went on the market at $15K, when everything was said and done with, she walked away from the closing with $9,8xx. Just enough to move into governmental housing.
[quote=DonnaReed;2317268]Truthhurts, there are many poor people who would love to only get ahold of some of those "bootstraps" you refer to.
Here's my advise to them "Get off your A## and get working!" Let me ask you a question what are these "poor" people doing to better their existence?
And I'm in serious disagreement with your take on the "morality value system" of the poor. You seem to equate morality with financial success.
Where did I equate morality to success? The poor have a horrible value system and anyone that is not in agreement of this is clearly in denial.
1. Poor people have a disproportionate number of children out of wedlock 2. Poor people are disproportionately a burden to the larger society and seem to have no problem having everyone else pay for them 3. Have a poor work ethic 4. Engage in a disproportionate amount of illegal behavior 5. Poor are more prone to violence
You can go into any poor neighborhood and observe moral decay amongst its citizens. In any and every country in the world. The poor have a faulty value system. I'm not saying the middle class or upper middle classes values and morals are 100% fault free, but they are clearly a lot better than the poors.
You say: Having a mother and a father who pride themselves on hardwork, determination, drive, and on treating other with respect etc should not be limited to the middle and upper classes of society.
As if wealth is always acquired through hard work, determination, drive and treating people with respect...
Well, look sorry to upset your myopic view of the world, but the middle class and upper middle class of America are by no means wealthy in comparison to the really wealthy in America. Wealth is a very relative term. The middle class simply exist based on hard work, determination, and drive. Middle class values differ largerly when compared to the values of poor individuals.
Just isn't so.
I thought wealth is most often inherited, and I don't get the "respect" connection.
Contrary to your belief most of the billionaires in America are self made billionaires and only a small percentage of them inherited their wealth. Most wealth created in the 1800's has disappeared. Most wealth created in the early 1900's has disappeared etc. Wealthy does not always last long, but my point here was that your statement is thus false.
The respect thing comes in when you go through a poor neighborhood it looks like a hurrican passed through it in most poor neighborhoods in the US. However when you go through a middle class neighborhood usually home ownership gives individuals the incentive to keep their yard up and house up, whereas poor people do not have that incentive so they litter and crap all through their neighborhoods.
Thre are very many "poor" who are quite rich in character and for whom "respect" and integrity are their greatest assets while, many wealthy seriously lack those assets.
I agree with you, but anomolies do not represent there respective populations as a whole. If they did we wouldn't have what i mentioned earlier in most poorer neighborhoods.
Substandard education is a reality, I don't know that kids who attain a B average are guaranteed an education, and those 6 simple things you list are not so simple for kids for whom safety and survival are a daily priority.
Well, think about this who is creating that need for safety? Is it racists, or the government robbing, killing, selling drugs, and murdering youth in those neighborhoods? Again poorer people need to take responsibility for themselves first, before any government policies can interven and actually help. I cited government policies tend to usually be a lot more harmful to the poor than helpful for instances.
1. Soft on Crime (democrats) - leads to more crime in poorer neighborhoods 2. Back monopolies in education as opposed to giving people a fair choice in education (deomcrats) - leads to lower education attainment levels for the poor 3. Purpopse hicks to minimum wage things that affect poor youths disproportionately (democrats) --leads to poorer youths that might have had a job are not fired and back on the streets more likely to engage in illegal activity.
Again look who the poor elect as officals then look at what these so called "caring people's" policies have done to their communities.
But hasn't research shown that most people who are poor today will not be poor 5 years from now? If true, I think we worry a little too much about the poor, whether for them or against them.
[quote=pghquest;2317299]Wealth is acquired through convincing others of parting with their money in exchange for a goods or services that you provide them in return.
That's called a market. Two things function in a market you have a market for suppliers and you have a market for buyers nothing less nothing more.
I can choose to even pay people to provide a goods or service on my behalf, giving them a percentage of my wealth.
The amount of work involved is mute.
This is complete and utter bs. Have you ever started or run your own successful business? If the answer is no then who are you to say the amount of work is mute?
To generate large amounts of wealth you must first take a huge financial risk. We do business in a "Winner Take All Society," those of us that produce the best products, offer the most innovative services, and assume the most risk for producing the best product are heavliy rewarded. Does the initial risk of starting a business create jobs and opportunities for others? Yes, but to what extent you create jobs and opportunities for others relies on how successful you are!
What isnt mute is that the wealthy have determined a goods or services that they have of value, and figured out how to sell that goods or services to other individuals. The poor either have no goods, no knowledge as to services they can provide, lack the knowledge to market their goods or services, or have no interest in marketing what they have to contribute.
Yes, i agree with this statment. However, the poor lack the "knowledge" because the poor lack basic education or advanced education. Again the problem with the poor comes back to the level of education they recieve. You "have no interestest in marketing what they have to contribute" is called laziness and that is a huge problem with the poor. Sure there are non-lazy poor people, but a lot of them are lazy. We could debate why they are lazy, but that could go on for days.
But hasn't research shown that most people who are poor today will not be poor 5 years from now? If true, I think we worry a little too much about the poor, whether for them or against them.
Why are you making so many assumptions about poor people? It's as if you know every single poor / working poor person in the United States, personally!
Do you not think that other factors (other than an individuals own "fault") can contribute to poverty?
I can choose to even pay people to provide a goods or service on my behalf, giving them a percentage of my wealth.
The amount of work involved is mute.
This is complete and utter bs. Have you ever started or run your own successful business? If the answer is no then who are you to say the amount of work is mute?
I CURRENTLY run SEVERAL businesses (currently working on another one as we speak).. so yes.. I 100% know what it takes to run not only one business.. but several.
What part of me choosing to pay people to go out and sell my products, in exchange for them receiving part of my money, is bs?
Rarely does someone who owns their own company 100%, do all of the work. Its impossible. Please explain how people hiring people to do work for them, is bs..
I CURRENTLY run SEVERAL businesses (currently working on another one as we speak).. so yes.. I 100% know what it takes to run not only one business.. but several.
What part of me choosing to pay people to go out and sell my products, in exchange for them receiving part of my money, is bs?
Rarely does someone who owns their own company 100%, do all of the work. Its impossible. Please explain how people hiring people to do work for them, is bs..
On another note, I would love to own my own business (or many businesses). I wish I knew the "secret" to success, in that sense.
I CURRENTLY run SEVERAL businesses (currently working on another one as we speak).. so yes.. I 100% know what it takes to run not only one business.. but several.
What part of me choosing to pay people to go out and sell my products, in exchange for them receiving part of my money, is bs?
Rarely does someone who owns their own company 100%, do all of the work. Its impossible. Please explain how people hiring people to do work for them, is bs..
It would help if you did not qoute me in an attempt to be misleading
I can choose to even pay people to provide a goods or service on my behalf, giving them a percentage of my wealth.
The amount of work involved is mute.
This is complete and utter bs. Have you ever started or run your own successful business? If the answer is no then who are you to say the amount of work is mute?
To generate large amounts of wealth you must first take a huge financial risk. We do business in a "Winner Take All Society," those of us that produce the best products, offer the most innovative services, and assume the most risk for producing the best product are heavliy rewarded. Does the initial risk of starting a business create jobs and opportunities for others? Yes, but to what extent you create jobs and opportunities for others relies on how successful you are!
PG don't be misleading if you're going to fairly debate me on this. You did the equivalent of a news clip where you take or write what you wanted to and then pull a few sentences that support your view. I'll debate you on this, but don't attempt to be misleading.
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