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Old 07-17-2014, 09:04 AM
 
3,216 posts, read 1,856,696 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Oh, no they didn't! They often had family here, who supported them, and/or the church.



I don't care who you are, you don't understand what I'm saying.

The posts I quoted talked about people here already having followed the legal immigration process. That is only true by the fact that there was no immigration process for Europeans anyway.

Sure, it's 2014. Times have changed. But don't justify opposition to immigration (which is the thread title, not opposition to illegal immigration) by saying that in the past, people who immigrated followed the legal immigration laws.
Family. Not the government.

 
Old 07-17-2014, 09:13 AM
 
Location: State of Being
35,885 posts, read 67,154,265 times
Reputation: 22373
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
The point is, it is untrue that previous immigrants, Europeans who arrived prior to 1920 anyway, went through some sort of "legal immigration" process. They just got on a boat and came over.
Well, that is not entirely true, either.

My family, both sides, came here in the early 1700s. They had received land grants prior to getting on that boat.

And I would remind you--when they arrived, they didn't have the privilege of birthing children on American soil who would then give them the right to apply for food stamps to feed those children, and no guaranteed healthcare, as there were no emergency rooms, lol. No schools, either. And fer shur--no low cost housing unless a person found a job working on a farm and sleeping in the barn,

So let's get real here. People didn't just get on a ship and arrive without some kind of skill to help them make a wage or start a farm. They weren't that ignorant! Many folks came as indentured slaves, including folks from Denmark, Norway, England, etc. That is a fact. People didn't just show up in the wilderness and wander around hoping someone would feed them.

As our country evolved, so did our laws, just like in every other sovereign nation on this good earth.
 
Old 07-17-2014, 09:23 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 17 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,995 posts, read 102,568,112 times
Reputation: 33059
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
Well, that is not entirely true, either.

My family, both sides, came here in the early 1700s. They had received land grants prior to getting on that boat.

And I would remind you--when they arrived, they didn't have the privilege of birthing children on American soil who would then give them the right to apply for food stamps to feed those children, and no guaranteed healthcare, as there were no emergency rooms, lol. No schools, either. And fer shur--no low cost housing unless a person found a job working on a farm and sleeping in the barn,

So let's get real here. People didn't just get on a ship and arrive without some kind of skill to help them make a wage or start a farm. They weren't that ignorant! Many folks came as indentured slaves, including folks from Denmark, Norway, England, etc. That is a fact. People didn't just show up in the wilderness and wander around hoping someone would feed them.

As our country evolved, so did our laws, just like in every other sovereign nation on this good earth.
My family came here so long ago I don't even know all the details. Yes, life was very different back in the 1700s, even the 1850s when some of my family came here. There wasn't much health care. You got sick, you died. And yes, many people did "just get on a ship and arrive without some kind of skill". Have you been to Ellis Island? I have. They have displays showing the differences in handwriting between the immigrants who had some schooling and those who had never held a pencil in their hands.

My husband's father's side came here more recently, from Sweden. His grandfather had family here already. He became a painter (houses). I don't know if he did that back in Sweden; he got here as a very young man.
 
Old 07-17-2014, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Home, Home on the Front Range
22,893 posts, read 16,266,544 times
Reputation: 12805
Quote:
Originally Posted by anifani821 View Post
We have always welcomed those who legally come here, as well as those who wish to legally work here or attend school here.

Just follow the law.

Folks who keep throwing this specious "hate towards immigrants" argument around are being disingenuous. All countries on the planet have the sovereign right and indeed, imperative, to protect their borders. And every nation has requirements governing citizenship.

Stop the madness. If any of us were to illegally sneak over the border of say--France, or Germany, or Switzerland--and plant ourselves there, have babies, sign up for subsidies--we all know what would happen. So stop pretending that there is something wrong with expecting folks to enter this country legally.
Ah, no, "we" haven't.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/03/op...avis.html?_r=0

Chinese Exclusion Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Regarding the OP: it is human nature to want to protect what one perceives oneself to have achieved through self-determination. Also human nature to be inherently selfish and not want to share.

The usual excuse of "but that was different" echoes through all of these arguments as if it was something noble and somehow self-explanatory when in reality is it has been forever thus.

At our hearts, we are no different than dogs fighting over scraps of food despite our particularly Christian protestations to the contrary.
It would be refreshing, if just once, people stopped pretending differently.
 
Old 07-17-2014, 09:33 AM
Status: "Elect a clown? Expect a circus!" (set 27 days ago)
 
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
58,178 posts, read 40,973,781 times
Reputation: 29902
Quote:
Originally Posted by stburr91 View Post
With the job market already oversupplied, bringing more people in that will work for less money than native born Americans, is only going to make the economy worse for the average person here.
And the only way that will stop is mandatory jail time for those who hire and benefit from those who work for less $$$.
 
Old 07-17-2014, 09:44 AM
 
15,734 posts, read 9,248,038 times
Reputation: 14212
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Once more, slowly. . .

If your ancestors arrived from Europe before 1920, they did NOT go through any immigration process. They saved up the money, or in some cases were paid by the steel companies and others, got on a boat and came over.

People have been posting that the difference between now and then is that "back then" immigrants went through the legal immigration process. NOT SO! In fact, there's more similarity to what the illegal immigrants are doing these days and what most of our ancestors did, than to any "legal immigration" process.
They also did not come and immediately start soaking the US citizens for money to support themselves.

You talk our ancestors being similar to the ILLEGALS now, yet you state that our ancestors had to save up money or had jobs waiting for them.
 
Old 07-17-2014, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Austin
12,214 posts, read 6,945,397 times
Reputation: 13449
Most Americans embrace legal immigrants.
 
Old 07-17-2014, 09:54 AM
 
1,305 posts, read 1,318,652 times
Reputation: 1364
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye2009 View Post


Wow- pretty hateful. I would guess that many of our priests in the Catholic church are gay and no one seems to have a problem with that. How many gays did Christ kill?
But it's true. Christians have always persecuted us homos as much as society would let them. We used to be tortured and killed in the dungeon. Then times changed and christians could only jail us. In fact, anti-sodomy laws were only declared unconstitutional in 2002 by the supreme court. Before that, gay people were arrested and prosecuted for simply doing something completely private in their own home.

And now that christians can't jail us anymore, they try their best to curb our rights. In most states, gay people can still be fired from their job for being gay.

If anything, history has taught us that christians will walk right up to the limits of what society will allow them to do to us homos. Before 2002, there was not a single christian church who came out in opposition of anti-sodomy laws. The country even elected a vocal advocate of such laws into the Oval office. Says a lot about christian "moral high ground" BS.
 
Old 07-17-2014, 10:03 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 17 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,995 posts, read 102,568,112 times
Reputation: 33059
Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise View Post
They also did not come and immediately start soaking the US citizens for money to support themselves.

You talk our ancestors being similar to the ILLEGALS now, yet you state that our ancestors had to save up money or had jobs waiting for them.
None of my ancestors, that I know of, had jobs waiting for them, nor did I say any did. As far as saving up money to make the trip, do you not think the illegal immigrants of today have to do that to? They pay these "coyotes" or they come on their own and have to provide themselves with food and at least the clothes on their backs on the journey. You have an overly romantic idea of what people did in the past if you think it's any different.

In some cases, back when the steel industry in PA was getting going, some people got their passage paid, or partially paid for to come over and work in the mills. The steel mills were NOT unionized then. It wasn't the way to go to make the big bucks and it was the same deal as today-they couldn't get people already here to do it.
CHAPTER 3 OF HUNGARIAN AND THEIR COMMUNITIES IN CLEVELAND
History of the Poles in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
**Warne accused the Slavs of depressing wages and effectively "attacking and retarding communal advancement" by the United Mine Workers.[71** Sound familiar?
An extremely interesting article overall.
 
Old 07-17-2014, 10:07 AM
Status: "Summer!" (set 17 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,995 posts, read 102,568,112 times
Reputation: 33059
Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
Agreed and, till about 1920 most women couldn't vote in the US either.
Wyoming, yes Wyoming, has given women the vote since 1890. It came into the union with women voting. Colorado is the first STATE to give women the vote, in 1893. FYI.
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