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A Ukrainian separatist caught out by chance by the Internet Archive's Wayback Machine, posting on their web page that they just shot down a military plane. A claim that quickly vanished when word came out it was a passenger plane
But the issue isn't Ukraine or "Ukranian Separatists". The issue is Russia, and their troops and proxies in Eastern Ukraine. They are paying these folks' salaries, they are supplying arms, and in fact we have the video of the Russians driving the damn missile launcher back across the Russian border. It isn't like there's much to debate in terms of facts re. the situation. It's clearly murder, and a coverup.
Really the only question is- what is the international community's response? Do they have the guts to stand up to Putin, or do we have to wait 5-10 years until he's invaded more countries, murdered more people, destroyed Russia, and caused a global catastrophe? You can't appease dictators.
Have you read about it in the ukrainian press?[/quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by musiqum
Timoshenko even said that it would be a great idea to kill all these "katzaps".
Yet another statement totally rehashed by russian media. She might said that in a different context. Or maybe you have the a video proving she said that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by musiqum
People of the east asked more liberty for themselves. They asked for federalization but they DIDN"T WANT TO SPLIT UKRAINE!
They always did. All the time that I can remember. You said they don't recognize Kyiv goverment. But truth is that they don't recognize Ukraine as an independent country at all!
Quote:
Originally Posted by musiqum
But Kiev declared a war with "terrorists" and these terrorists had no choice but only save themselves and fight for all Donbass.
Donbass civilian already realised what the "rebels" really are. After everything they brought to peacful citizens. We can see what the people of liberated Sloviansk say in their interviews. They DID support rebels, but now they understood they a just a bunch of crazies armed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by musiqum
Do you know that Russia already accepted more than 100K refugees from Ukraine. And among them alot of ethnic ukrainians from the east?
That's what Russia says. But they call regugees all people who came across the border. So let's call all russians going to a vacation outside Rissa the refugees. That does not make any sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by musiqum
I betcha you don't know that kievan army was killing peaceful civilians daily (not the rebels) but the ukrainian MSM blaming "terrorists" for that.
You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs. When Russia "liberated" Grozny from the same "rebels", they acted much more agressive. They actually destroyed the whole city. Watch this:
But ukr. forces operates as accurately as possible. They'd never do what Russia previously did with their people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by musiqum
Who starts to kill people? Did you forget as the Right sector commandos went to the east "to restore the order"? Citizens of the eastern Ukraine asked for democracy but the Kievan junta called them illegal terrorists.
1) Yanukovych on the maidan. 2) Nobody seen the Right Sector there except the russain media. 3)Citizens of the eastern Ukraine proclaimed independency armed seizure of power. That's what you call democracy?
This is true. So we may find that the commercial aircraft was deliberately shot down by trained Russian technicians who believed the plane was a military transport. In any case, it was a serious escalation of the conflict as up to a few weeks ago only shoulder fired 9K34 Strela-3 ManPad missiles had been used by the separatists. Probably the Transport plane shot down while at 21,000 ft was done by a BOK17, air defense vehicle mounted missile system, with techs trained by Russian advisers. This will certainly make the situation worse for Putin.
At a June 30 Pentagon news conference, NATO Supreme Commander Gen. Philip Breedlove said Russia had been providing air defense training to Russian separatists on its side of the border with Ukraine that focused on “vehicle-borne” surface-to-air missiles. A vehicle-borne capability would involve a surface-to-air missile with a longer range than portable shoulder-fired missiles known as MANPADS.
Sheet gets blown up when your at war. Not saying anything or either side is right or wrong but they are going at it. Sheet gets blown up when you do that.
Putin needs to be brought before a United Nations tribunal and answer for these war crimes. It's as simple as that. He's a murderer, and needs to be brought to justice.
Russian foreign assets need to be frozen/seized, and the country has to be completely isolated politically. The U.S./Canada has the energy capacity to supply Western Europe, and once this occurs the elites that control Russia will probably rebel and bring Putin's downfall. The Russians will probably depose Putin themselves once they're brought misery from lack of oil revenues.
Putin pulled the trigger. Hey while your at it screaming for Putin's head why not drag Obama there too in front of your tribunal for his drone attacks? Not defending old Vlad in the least as he's a commie pig but just showing how ridiculous you sound.
Yet another statement totally rehashed by russian media. She might said that in a different context. Or maybe you have the a video proving she said that?
They always did. All the time that I can remember. You said they don't recognize Kyiv goverment. But truth is that they don't recognize Ukraine as an independent country at all!
Donbass civilian already realised what the "rebels" really are. After everything they brought to peacful citizens. We can see what the people of liberated Sloviansk say in their interviews. They DID support rebels, but now they understood they a just a bunch of crazies armed.
That's what Russia says. But they call regugees all people who came across the border. So let's call all russians going to a vacation outside Rissa the refugees. That does not make any sense.
You can't make an omelette without breaking eggs. When Russia "liberated" Grozny from the same "rebels", they acted much more agressive. They actually destroyed the whole city. Watch this:
But ukr. forces operates as accurately as possible. They'd never do what Russia previously did with their people.
1) Yanukovych on the maidan. 2) Nobody seen the Right Sector there except the russain media. 3)Citizens of the eastern Ukraine proclaimed independency armed seizure of power. That's what you call democracy?
Here you'll find a collection of some youtube videos (not russian media) that might be interesting for you. oruin -
Before there is any further discussion of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, it’s important that one point be made absolutely clear: This plane crash is a result of the Russian invasion of eastern Ukraine, an operation deliberately designed to create legal, political and military chaos. Without this chaos, a surface-to-air missile would not have been fired at a passenger plane.
From the beginning, the Russian government did not send regular soldiers to Ukraine. Instead, it sent Russian mercenaries and security service operatives such as Igor Strelkov — the commander in chief in Donetsk and a Russian secret police colonel who fought in both Chechen wars — and Vladimir Antyufeyev, the Donetsk “deputy prime minister” who led the Latvian KGB’s attempt to overthrow the independent Latvian government in 1991.
With the help of local thugs, these Russian security men besieged police stations, government offices and other symbols of political authority to delegitimize the Ukrainian state. In this task, they were assisted by the Russian government and by Russia’s state-controlled mass media, both of which still constantly denigrate Ukraine and its “Nazi” government. Just in the past week, Russian reporting on Ukraine reached a new pitch of hysteria, with fake stories about the supposed crucifixion of a child and an extraordinary documentary comparing the Ukrainian army’s defense of its own country with the Rwandan genocide.
Before there is any further discussion of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17, it’s important that one point be made absolutely clear: This plane crash is a result of the Russian invasion of eastern Ukraine, an operation deliberately designed to create legal, political and military chaos. Without this chaos, a surface-to-air missile would not have been fired at a passenger plane.
From the beginning, the Russian government did not send regular soldiers to Ukraine. Instead, it sent Russian mercenaries and security service operatives such as Igor Strelkov — the commander in chief in Donetsk and a Russian secret police colonel who fought in both Chechen wars — and Vladimir Antyufeyev, the Donetsk “deputy prime minister” who led the Latvian KGB’s attempt to overthrow the independent Latvian government in 1991.
With the help of local thugs, these Russian security men besieged police stations, government offices and other symbols of political authority to delegitimize the Ukrainian state. In this task, they were assisted by the Russian government and by Russia’s state-controlled mass media, both of which still constantly denigrate Ukraine and its “Nazi” government. Just in the past week, Russian reporting on Ukraine reached a new pitch of hysteria, with fake stories about the supposed crucifixion of a child and an extraordinary documentary comparing the Ukrainian army’s defense of its own country with the Rwandan genocide.
Exactly. If we did not have the weakest president in the history of the country these "rebel" camps would e in ashes by now.
What happened to all our drones?
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