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Wikipedia is not a good source, I admit, but it's a quick place to start for someone like you. The entire Roman culture was gay/bi, they all engaged in it. It was the cultural norm. Same for Greece. That changed when the Romans adopted Christianity, than they changed back to their old ways when they abandoned it. This is a historical fact and is not debatable.
But I am here not to discuss homosexuality. That's a dumb topic that is overplayed, there's a whole list of other issues that I mentioned but the pro-gays get caught up that one thing. Tunnel vision is a dangerous thing. Furthermore I provided evidence to back up my argument and you don't want to listen to it, which I expect because people don't actually care about the truth, they just want to believe what makes them happy. And if someone shows them the truth they get defensive and attack them, as you did.
I agree with you on the over politicizing of homosexuality. it need not be a political issue. People should just mind there own business, and by people I mean everyone including the governments and businesses. It's not anyones business if someone is gay. The media should not encourage it, but it also shouldn't discourage it.
Christianity does not make someone moral. People have killed in the name of Jesus even though Jesus very specifically said not to do that. And I know you agree with me on that. Jesus is about the only reason I consider Christianity relevant. And it's a shame everyone doesn't learn a little something from him.
As for family values, my point is the same (which is why I brought up sexuality and not families; to avoid redundancy). Those are small issues that can't cause the fall of a nation. They aren't large scale enough and don't have the longevity. Poor economic choices can last several life times, but morality can fluctuate over a single generation. We've seen this. Since the establishment of the federal reserve, the US government is in a state of perpetual debt. It's mathematically impossible for the government to be debt free under the current system. That's a change that will likely last forever or until someone changes it. But in just a a few decades, black Americans went from being the most hated people to being just another member of society. Divorce rates are high, though the number is deceiving. Yes, ~50% of marriages end in divorce, but that number is bumped up by repeat offenders. And ultimately, divorce is better than the alternative. To quote Louis CK "no good marriage has ever ended in divorce." I knew a kid in high school who actually wanted his parents to get divorced because he was sick of their constant arguing. Ultimately, the issue of divorce isn't as simple as 'well, there wouldn't be a problem if people just stopped getting divorced."
Not true. While I'm sure that might have something to do with it, there are plenty of cases where men who were straight outside of prison form same sex romances with men in prison. Many of them even become transgendered and start acting like women.
It's environmental.
Do you have any proof of anything you claim? Anything at all?
I do believe you're pulling your 'facts' out of your nether regions.
Men in prison have sex with other men because there are no women. It doesn't last.
Not true. While I'm sure that might have something to do with it, there are plenty of cases where men who were straight outside of prison form same sex romances with men in prison. Many of them even become transgendered and start acting like women.
It's environmental.
Wow. You need to go to a community college-- quickly. Here's a hint-- "gay" is not a slippery slope to being transgendered. Sexuality and gender are pretty much unrelated.
You obviously can't make a pronouncement on whether sexuality is biological or environmental if you don't even understand the terminology you are discussing.
Many of the elements mentioned in the OP are common to most decaying empires, and soon enough there will be a tombstone in the graveyard of great world empires that reads "United States of America", only a generation after the USSR earned their place, and less than a century after the British did the same. It's a natural process and cycle endemic to all great powers in history; the only variation is how long their rise is, how high they rise, and how long they take to fall.
Quote:
Originally Posted by West Coast Republican
-The abandonment of Christianity. Despite Rome's prior persecution of Christians, they later adopted it as the official religion through Constantine. Rome flourished and became more powerful than ever during this time period, but before the fall they abandoned it and many of it's civilians went back to the pagan gods of old and took up all the sinful acts along with it. In America today Christianity is often mocked and regarded as stupid by many in our society, and many are taking up "pagan" beliefs such as new age secularism and atheism which denies God and basically says do whatever you feel like.
However, this section is inaccurate; with the exception of Julian the Apostate's reign Christianity continued to be the state religion of Rome until it ended in 476 and the empire became more Christian as it devolved. As a matter of fact there is a distinct correlation between Rome's decline and Paganism's decline, though considering the success of the more Christianized East it's either unrelated to the decline or requires other factors to work in concert to produce a decline. Also, the height of Rome's power is generally considered to be during Trajan's reign, when Paganism was as strong as ever, and in any case the height of Rome's power occurred before the Crisis of the Third Century, when the empire was mortally wounded, never recovered its full strength again; the Dominate replaced the Principate, and the earliest stages of feudalism began concurrent with deurbanization and an economic decline. In my opinion that Crisis is what killed Roman civilization, but the process took centuries to be outwardly apparent.
It should also be noted that there is a 359 year timespan between the territorial peak in 117 to the last Emperor's reign ending in 476; that is unusually long period of decline for any historical empire. Most empires' declines lasted for less than a century. The USSR's demise was among the most rapid in history, declining for only a couple of decades and falling in only 2 years. Perhaps history moves faster nowadays .
Many of the elements mentioned in the OP are common to most decaying empires, and soon enough there will be a tombstone in the graveyard of great world empires that reads "United States of America", only a generation after the USSR earned their place, and less than a century after the British did the same. It's a natural process and cycle endemic to all great powers in history; the only variation is how long their rise is, how high they rise, and how long they take to fall.
However, this section is inaccurate; with the exception of Julian the Apostate's reign Christianity continued to be the state religion of Rome until it ended in 476 and the empire became more Christian as it devolved. As a matter of fact there is a distinct correlation between Rome's decline and Paganism's decline, though considering the success of the more Christianized East it's either unrelated to the decline or requires other factors to work in concert to produce a decline. Also, the height of Rome's power is generally considered to be during Trajan's reign, when Paganism was as strong as ever, and in any case the height of Rome's power occurred before the Crisis of the Third Century, when the empire was mortally wounded, never recovered its full strength again; the Dominate replaced the Principate, and the earliest stages of feudalism began concurrent with deurbanization and an economic decline. In my opinion that Crisis is what killed Roman civilization, but the process took centuries to be outwardly apparent.
It should also be noted that there is a 359 year timespan between the territorial peak in 117 to the last Emperor's reign ending in 476; that is unusually long period of decline for any historical empire. Most empires' declines lasted for less than a century. The USSR's demise was among the most rapid in history, declining for only a couple of decades and falling in only 2 years. Perhaps history moves faster nowadays .
Well said.
Also, I'd like to add that how can the rise in Paganism be a factor in the fall of Rome, if before Christianity, Paganism was common among Rome and it was doing fine?
I think the bottom line is that this have nothing to do with it.
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