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Old 08-10-2014, 05:13 PM
 
Location: Purgatory
6,317 posts, read 4,444,319 times
Reputation: 9731

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Conservatives often speak about wanting their "freedoms." Well, i too am a big advocate of "freedom" yet i consider myself liberal.

Although i haven't checked every thesaurus, i feel confident in saying that "free" is an antonym of "conservative."

Here are some of the freedoms that i cherish as a liberal:

  • freedom of religion such as Wicca, Muslim, etc
  • freedom of speech
  • freedom for women to do what they want with their bodies- including D and Cs (i.e., pregnancy termination)
  • freedom to use birth control
  • freedom to engage in prostitution
  • freedom to marry whomever wants to marry you and vice versa
  • freedom of information
  • freedom to put whatever you want in your body such as marijuana
  • freedom of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness
  • freedom from oppression
  • freedom of self-protection
  • And many more . . . .

Most "conservatives" that i know believe in "the freedom of the second amendment," and then maybe half of the list above if lucky.

In other words, most Conservatives do NOT believe in:
  • freedom of religion such as Wicca, Muslim, etc
  • freedom for women to do what they want with their bodies- including D and Cs (i.e., pregnancy termination)
  • freedom to engage in prostitution
  • freedom to marry whomever wants to marry you and vice versa
  • freedom to put whatever you want in your body such as marijuana
I'm not trying to insult anyone, but sometimes i feel like "freedom" is code for "likes guns, may have partial paranoia and doesn't want to pay taxes." But this has nothing to do with ACTUAL FREEDOM.

How did ONE issue- pro-guns (and i'm not arguing for or against) become the ONLY issue of freedom.

Again, i am not trying to insult anyone, i just would like to know from all "Conservatives who believe in Freedom," What are the freedoms you believe in besides guns?

How can you even feel comfortable exclaiming that you believe in freedoms when you don't believe in those key freedoms in the second list?



Thank you for helping me understand.

Last edited by Utopian Slums; 08-10-2014 at 05:14 PM.. Reason: Spacing
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Old 08-10-2014, 05:22 PM
 
877 posts, read 1,026,583 times
Reputation: 1156
Nah, you're looking at everything from a typical biased

I guess I could easily say that all of the liberals I know are faux liberals. They enjoy pretending to be warriors for vulnerable groups in an attempt to look good and call themselves open minded.
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Old 08-10-2014, 05:23 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,720 posts, read 24,632,366 times
Reputation: 9178
You need to look at what so many liberals actually do, not what they say.

freedom of speech
- why do liberals support hate speech legislation? Why is hate speech different from other speech?

freedom for women to do what they want with their bodies- including D and Cs (i.e., pregnancy termination)
- many believe that a fetus is not the woman's body at all. The fetus is an new being, living inside the woman. I don't care if the woman wants to cut off her arm - that's hers completely.

freedom to engage in prostitution
- I don't have a problem with this - but many liberals do. Some say it is demeaning to women

freedom of information
- many liberals have argued that the flow of information needs to be controlled. The current White House is possibly the most anti-free press administration ever (as per former NY Times editor)

freedom to put whatever you want in your body such as marijuana
- liberals don't believe this. They may with marijuana, but they don't even believe we can eat sugar or hamburgers
freedom of self-protection
- clearly a sizable portion of liberals don't believe we should have this right
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Old 08-10-2014, 05:28 PM
 
Location: Iowa, USA
6,555 posts, read 3,069,513 times
Reputation: 3791
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian Slums View Post
Conservatives often speak about wanting their "freedoms." Well, i too am a big advocate of "freedom" yet i consider myself liberal.

Here are some of the freedoms that i cherish as a liberal:

  • freedom of religion such as Wicca, Muslim, etc
  • freedom of speech
  • freedom for women to do what they want with their bodies- including D and Cs (i.e., pregnancy termination)
  • freedom to use birth control
  • freedom to engage in prostitution
  • freedom to marry whomever wants to marry you and vice versa
  • freedom of information
  • freedom to put whatever you want in your body such as marijuana
  • freedom of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness
  • freedom from oppression
  • freedom of self-protection
  • And many more . . . .

Most "conservatives" that i know believe in "the freedom of the second amendment," and then maybe half of the list above if lucky.

In other words, most Conservatives do NOT believe in:
  • freedom of religion such as Wicca, Muslim, etc
  • freedom for women to do what they want with their bodies- including D and Cs (i.e., pregnancy termination)
  • freedom to engage in prostitution
  • freedom to marry whomever wants to marry you and vice versa
  • freedom to put whatever you want in your body such as marijuana
I'm not trying to insult anyone, but sometimes i feel like "freedom" is code for "likes guns, may have partial paranoia and doesn't want to pay taxes." But this has nothing to do with ACTUAL FREEDOM.

Again, i am not trying to insult anyone, i just would like to know from all "Conservatives who believe in Freedom," What are the freedoms you believe in besides guns?

How can you even feel comfortable exclaiming that you believe in freedoms when you don't believe in those key freedoms in the second list?
You raise some valid points, but there's a problem with your list: All you do is put freedom in front of something. That doesn't make it 'freedom.'

I believe everyone should have a right to freedom. And I'm on board with the marijuana and the gay marriage, but why abortion and prostitution?

Let's talk about abortion. I understand the argument pro-abortion bring to the table, and believe me, I don't want to disagree with it... but I do. Just a little. An abortion is the terminate of a pregnancy. I consider that the termination of a life. Some do, some don't. Here's the issue, if someone get's pregnant and they don't want the child, it's just a clump of cells. A few years later, they get pregnant and want to this time; suddenly it's the miracle of life.

I sympathize with victims of sexual assault and do believe abortion can be an option for them, and I'm not even necessarily against it being an option in general. What I'm against is this idea that it's a right. How so?

I won't go any further on the topic as that's not what this is about. The simple fact is that being against abortion does not mean they are against freedom. I'll agree, many modern conservatives have lost their values or rather, simply believe to strongly that their values are better than the values of other people. But is the modern liberal much better? They'd rather take away guns for a little temporary safety than let people have them and just teach them to use them properly (I am not a gun owner, by the way). And who cares if someone's against gay marriage. They have the right to voice that. Who cares if it's idiotic? No where in the constitution does it say idiots aren't allowed to speak.

The modern liberal does not fit the definition of liberal. Liberals are for freedom for everyone, not those they dean worthy. I understand the desire to help the poor, the weak, the minorities; I really do. But forcing people to think a certain way doesn't work. We need to teach tolerance, and this is a two way street. We need Christians tolerant of gay people and secularists tolerant of Christianity. They don't have to agree with gay marriage and we don't have to agree with that stance. But we need to get along and let each other live.
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Old 08-10-2014, 05:36 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
9,427 posts, read 5,525,542 times
Reputation: 1530
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian Slums View Post
Conservatives often speak about wanting their "freedoms." Well, i too am a big advocate of "freedom" yet i consider myself liberal.

Although i haven't checked every thesaurus, i feel confident in saying that "free" is an antonym of "conservative."

Here are some of the freedoms that i cherish as a liberal:

  • freedom of religion such as Wicca, Muslim, etc
  • freedom of speech
  • freedom for women to do what they want with their bodies- including D and Cs (i.e., pregnancy termination)
  • freedom to use birth control
  • freedom to engage in prostitution
  • freedom to marry whomever wants to marry you and vice versa
  • freedom of information
  • freedom to put whatever you want in your body such as marijuana
  • freedom of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness
  • freedom from oppression
  • freedom of self-protection
  • And many more . . . .

Most "conservatives" that i know believe in "the freedom of the second amendment," and then maybe half of the list above if lucky.

In other words, most Conservatives do NOT believe in:
  • freedom of religion such as Wicca, Muslim, etc
  • freedom for women to do what they want with their bodies- including D and Cs (i.e., pregnancy termination)
  • freedom to engage in prostitution
  • freedom to marry whomever wants to marry you and vice versa
  • freedom to put whatever you want in your body such as marijuana
I'm not trying to insult anyone, but sometimes i feel like "freedom" is code for "likes guns, may have partial paranoia and doesn't want to pay taxes." But this has nothing to do with ACTUAL FREEDOM.

How did ONE issue- pro-guns (and i'm not arguing for or against) become the ONLY issue of freedom.

Again, i am not trying to insult anyone, i just would like to know from all "Conservatives who believe in Freedom," What are the freedoms you believe in besides guns?

How can you even feel comfortable exclaiming that you believe in freedoms when you don't believe in those key freedoms in the second list?



Thank you for helping me understand.
No, you side does not, every gun law since 1934 has been written by, introduced by, support by, and signed by your side.

Furthermore you side is pro choice? Really?

School Voucher? Nope!Fight It!
Charter Schools? Nope! Fight It!
Keeping more of what you earn? Nope! Fight It!
Fracking? Nope! Fight It!
Less Regulations? Nope! Fight It!
Limited Government? Nope! Fight It!
Trans Fats? Nope! Ban It!
Post May 19th 1986 Machine Guns? Nope! Banned!

And so on and so forth.

You are not a liberal, more or less a Libertarian.
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Old 08-10-2014, 05:49 PM
 
Location: Las Vegas,Nevada
9,427 posts, read 5,525,542 times
Reputation: 1530
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDusty View Post
You raise some valid points, but there's a problem with your list: All you do is put freedom in front of something. That doesn't make it 'freedom.'

I believe everyone should have a right to freedom. And I'm on board with the marijuana and the gay marriage, but why abortion and prostitution?

Let's talk about abortion. I understand the argument pro-abortion bring to the table, and believe me, I don't want to disagree with it... but I do. Just a little. An abortion is the terminate of a pregnancy. I consider that the termination of a life. Some do, some don't. Here's the issue, if someone get's pregnant and they don't want the child, it's just a clump of cells. A few years later, they get pregnant and want to this time; suddenly it's the miracle of life.

I sympathize with victims of sexual assault and do believe abortion can be an option for them, and I'm not even necessarily against it being an option in general. What I'm against is this idea that it's a right. How so?

I won't go any further on the topic as that's not what this is about. The simple fact is that being against abortion does not mean they are against freedom. I'll agree, many modern conservatives have lost their values or rather, simply believe to strongly that their values are better than the values of other people. But is the modern liberal much better? They'd rather take away guns for a little temporary safety than let people have them and just teach them to use them properly (I am not a gun owner, by the way). And who cares if someone's against gay marriage. They have the right to voice that. Who cares if it's idiotic? No where in the constitution does it say idiots aren't allowed to speak.

The modern liberal does not fit the definition of liberal. Liberals are for freedom for everyone, not those they dean worthy. I understand the desire to help the poor, the weak, the minorities; I really do. But forcing people to think a certain way doesn't work. We need to teach tolerance, and this is a two way street. We need Christians tolerant of gay people and secularists tolerant of Christianity. They don't have to agree with gay marriage and we don't have to agree with that stance. But we need to get along and let each other live.
Its great to see a non gun owner seeing the value of the 2nd Amendment..Start being a gun owner its easy and a great part of being an America...

Remember these two quotes.

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"-George Orwell

"Inside Every Liberal is a Totalitarian Screaming to Get Out"-Unknown

"A man’s admiration for absolute government is proportionate to the contempt he feels for those around him." -- Alexis de Tocqueville

“Society will develop a new kind of servitude which covers the surface of society with a network of complicated rules, through which the most original minds and the most energetic characters cannot penetrate. It does not tyrannise but it compresses, enervates, extinguishes, and stupefies a people, till each nation is reduced to nothing better than a flock of timid and industrious animals, of which the government is the shepherd.”
― Alexis de Tocqueville

"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." -- C.S. Lewis

“The devil can cite Scripture for his purpose.An evil soul producing holy witnessIs like a villain with a smiling cheek, A goodly apple rotten at the heart.O, what a goodly outside falsehood hath!”
― William Shakespeare, The Merchant of Venice
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Old 08-10-2014, 06:13 PM
 
3,216 posts, read 1,768,221 times
Reputation: 1215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian Slums View Post
Conservatives often speak about wanting their "freedoms." Well, i too am a big advocate of "freedom" yet i consider myself liberal.

Although i haven't checked every thesaurus, i feel confident in saying that "free" is an antonym of "conservative."

Here are some of the freedoms that i cherish as a liberal:

  • freedom of religion such as Wicca, Muslim, etc
  • freedom of speech
  • freedom for women to do what they want with their bodies- including D and Cs (i.e., pregnancy termination)
  • freedom to use birth control
  • freedom to engage in prostitution
  • freedom to marry whomever wants to marry you and vice versa
  • freedom of information
  • freedom to put whatever you want in your body such as marijuana
  • freedom of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness
  • freedom from oppression
  • freedom of self-protection
  • And many more . . . .

Most "conservatives" that i know believe in "the freedom of the second amendment," and then maybe half of the list above if lucky.

In other words, most Conservatives do NOT believe in:
  • freedom of religion such as Wicca, Muslim, etc
  • freedom for women to do what they want with their bodies- including D and Cs (i.e., pregnancy termination)
  • freedom to engage in prostitution
  • freedom to marry whomever wants to marry you and vice versa
  • freedom to put whatever you want in your body such as marijuana
I'm not trying to insult anyone, but sometimes i feel like "freedom" is code for "likes guns, may have partial paranoia and doesn't want to pay taxes." But this has nothing to do with ACTUAL FREEDOM.

How did ONE issue- pro-guns (and i'm not arguing for or against) become the ONLY issue of freedom.

Again, i am not trying to insult anyone, i just would like to know from all "Conservatives who believe in Freedom," What are the freedoms you believe in besides guns?

How can you even feel comfortable exclaiming that you believe in freedoms when you don't believe in those key freedoms in the second list?



Thank you for helping me understand.
I would consider most of the founding fathers to be much more "free" than we are today and probably
far more conservative in their beliefs than what you listed.
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Old 08-10-2014, 06:15 PM
 
4,572 posts, read 2,862,020 times
Reputation: 3261
OP, you're not insulting, just showing your ignorance of conservatism.

And liberalism.
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Old 08-10-2014, 06:18 PM
 
Location: 22 months till retirement and I can leave the hell hole of New Yakistan
23,248 posts, read 13,015,326 times
Reputation: 5858
liberals aren't free....their fascists

I want freedom....

the freedom to smoke if I want....liberals outlawed pot, nd nearly tobacco


liberals are constantly telling me (through some new law/tax) what I cant do

liberals are anti-freedom
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Old 08-10-2014, 06:31 PM
 
Location: Iowa, USA
6,555 posts, read 3,069,513 times
Reputation: 3791
Quote:
Originally Posted by toryturner View Post
I would consider most of the founding fathers to be much more "free" than we are today and probably
far more conservative in their beliefs than what you listed.
The founders were liberals in their time but would be considered conservative by today's standards because they wouldn't want to force people to agree with touchy social issues or to raise taxes to allow for wasteful spending.

It's sad. I wish I could say I was liberal, and sometimes I still do just because I like the word. I'm liberal because I support liberty, but I see nothing liberating about guns laws, forced political correctness, or high taxes to accommodate the poor or sick. I feel for the poor, I really do. If I could eliminate poverty I would, but not at the expense of others. If I could provide free, high quality healthcare to everyone, I would but never at the expense of others. The modern liberal may get to feel good about 'helping the poor' but ultimately, they're just hurting someone else in the end. Yes, some of the wealthy lied and cheated their way to their wealth, but plenty just worked hard. I grew up in a wealthy neighborhood and do you know how many politicians or lobbyist I've met or even come close to knowing? Zero. Just because the wealthy have more does not mean they owe anything to anyone else. If they choose to donate, good for them. IF they choose to open up non-profit organizations to help those who need it, even better! A private, non-profit will do more for the poor than any government program could ever do and I firmly believe the founding fathers would back me up on that (you know, if they weren't dead).
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