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Old 10-30-2006, 04:00 PM
 
11,598 posts, read 17,560,663 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starman View Post
some are saying... that the speed which the floors fell thru was way too fast .... its more like there was demolition set up and this brought down the buildings with the planes.....
Or it could be that the building was hit by a 100 ton object moving at 500 MPH and carrying 8,000 gallons of fuel and the consuming force, heat, and fire exceeded engineered stress levels for keeping this or any building intact.

On the other hand it could be that aliens are keeping Elvis's brain alive on the planet Alpha-plux .

I would hope this site would be above the "tin foil hat" crowd speculation.
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Old 10-30-2006, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Bothell, Washington
454 posts, read 640,112 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post

On the other hand it could be that aliens are keeping Elvis's brain alive on the planet Alpha-plux .
No no no. Elvis and Jimmy Hoffa were on the plane that hit the pentagon. I have proof positive. Nobody has seen either one since.
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Old 10-30-2006, 07:09 PM
 
Location: Tucson, AZ
1,696 posts, read 3,061,096 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
Or it could be that the building was hit by a 100 ton object moving at 500 MPH and carrying 8,000 gallons of fuel and the consuming force, heat, and fire exceeded engineered stress levels for keeping this or any building intact.

On the other hand it could be that aliens are keeping Elvis's brain alive on the planet Alpha-plux .

I would hope this site would be above the "tin foil hat" crowd speculation.
Except steel melts at temperatures of 2400 degrees F. The jet fuel only heated to 1800F. The heat from the fuel did not cause those buildings to collapse.

What if there were some other official government version of 9/11, but one of the popular "tin foil hat" theories said that the whole thing was caused by a gimpy 70-year old guy dragging around a dialysis kit in the mountains of Afghanistan, and from some godforsaken cave managed to coordinate 25 hijackers (who by the way were all pretty much losers at life) and have them take down the most sophisticated air defense system on the planet? Pretty kooky, right?

Does the fact that at least 6 of these hijackers are now thought to be alive make this explanation any less goofy?

So, we have a government loaded with people who lied to start an illegal war, whereby we invaded a sovereign nation, and killed tens of thousands of citizens of a country who did not attack us. We have a government, led by a president, who basically haven't told the truth about a darn thing in their entire political careers. Yet, when someone challenges the official government story of 9/11, they're wearing a tin foil hat? They deserve our unquestioning, blind trust? I'm supposed to believe that all of a sudden, in the aftermath of 9/11, they got bitten by the truth bug, never to have been bitten by it since? Sorry, but too much doesn't add up for me.

Just remember- truth is stranger than fiction.

Incidentally, a recent CBS News/NY Times poll showed that 84% question the government's version of 9/11 to some extent. I should have bought stock in Reynolds, I suppose. I'd be rich beyond my wildest dreams if I had.
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Old 10-30-2006, 07:31 PM
 
Location: Springfield, Missouri
2,814 posts, read 11,909,507 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cahpsuth View Post
I think 9/11 happened because your government lulled you into a false sense of security, having you believe it could not or would not occur.Even now, how many t.v. progamme makers and newspapers have shown security measures to be a mockery. If someone really wants to do damage they can,despite even the most stringent security measures.
The government wasn't completely oblivious...they'd had reports from individual agencies that posited that such an attack was possible. There were several innate problems... our government agencies were completely independent of each other and jealous of their jurisdictions. The FBI, CIA, NSA, military intelligence, etc. all ran independently and didn't necessarily share data or intelligence. They didn't even pool data bases. All of this dates back historically to traditional rivalries within the U.S. government and even within the military which still separates by branch jealously.
The other point is psychological...in my view. To make the analogy relevant to you, just as Britain was isolated by being an island with the English Channel to separate it from continental Europe and its wars (no invasion since 1066 with the Normans), a complacency set in. The idea that an invasion or infiltration from a foreign source was probably the farthest thing to the British psyche what with the channel providing a natural defense and the Royal Navy being the most powerful in the world patrolling the seas around Great Britain. I'm sure that when the first bombs dropped on England during the 14-18 War (as I heard World War 1 refered to once by Britons), the psychological shock was immense. And then of course the Blitz during WWII which destroyed the London docks, much of London, the city of Coventry completely and large swaths of English cities up and down the country...the shock of destruction coming despite the natural defenses that had 1000 years to take root. Well, the USA has lived similarly. We're the most powerful nation on the planet in every area of military application and confident in our military, separated from most of the world nations that have posed a threat to us or others by oceans which have given us at least 3000 to 8000 miles of ocean moats, weak nations to our north and south that pose no threat, and no threats from anywhere else in the western hemisphere. All the previous terrorist bombings and campaigns had happened overseas (notwithstanding of course our own domestic terrorist act at Oklahoma City in 95), in Europe, in Asia, in the Middle East...never in America. We were used to going anywhere we wanted without ID. I used to watch the pilots fly crosscountry airliners from my seat as the cockpit doors were usually open. We were used to access anywhere and everywhere within our own country and our violent threats were internal and had to do with urban crime and using common sense to avoid it. For the American psyche, 9/11 came out of the blue. Not only was it totally unexpected, it took advantage of an openness in our society we had forever taken for granted and thought nothing of. The scale of the attack was beyond anything that had ever happened, ....anywhere. The USA shut down for four days. Dead silence in the skies. The shock was so pervasive and palpable that most Americans took weeks to absorb what had happened...and...had to accept that our country would have to change in ways foreign to us. You have to understand the American psyche to understand the impact of 9/11 on America, and it's much deeper and broader than most Europeans can grasp. They don't feel the same about their countries. They've lost a sense of nationalism and belongingness to a large degree. They're allowing their societies to be subtly eroded by foreign religions and immigrants who refuse to adapt to the societies they migrate into. As much as Americans complain about immigration and illegal migrants (two different things), the fact remains that most tend to integrate by the second generation. They want to be American, not what they were. That sense of violated nationhood, never expected, so overwhelming in its impact, set us off. We're still not totally recovered. But the "F.U." the USA practices in dealing with other nations who attempt to thwart us instead of the traditional diplomatic niceties reflects the impact of that day. Maybe you can understand it if that analogy with Britain rang true. I don't know if it would or did.
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Old 10-30-2006, 07:48 PM
 
75 posts, read 405,355 times
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I suggest anyone who doubts there was monkey business behind 911 read Tacitus and discover that power hungry politicians and businessmen have been pulling similar - and worse - stunts since time immemorial. And based on the legislation being passed these days - in particular the one circumventing habeas corpus, the right to trial by jury (which if you read the fine print on the bill just signed leaves discretion, essentially, to the whim of the president) - tells me that there's a lot more to this than "fighting terror." habeas corpus is the backbone of justice, and justice is one of the foundations of democracy. to suspend it means this is no longer the country founded in 1776. things change, civilizations come and go, the USA will be no different. as Ben Franklin said to someone just after signing the Constitution, "Now you have a democracy. Let's see if you can keep it." Apparently, we could until the year 2006, the year the American people decided they were more interested in watching "Dancing With the Stars" than paying attention to who was minding the store...

Last edited by buzzkirk; 10-30-2006 at 08:03 PM..
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Old 10-31-2006, 01:36 AM
 
Location: NC
1,250 posts, read 2,266,945 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starman View Post
some are saying... that the speed which the floors fell thru was way too fast .... its more like there was demolition set up and this brought down the buildings with the planes.....
Those buildings were designed to implode not topple
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Old 10-31-2006, 01:38 AM
 
Location: NC
1,250 posts, read 2,266,945 times
Reputation: 584
Quote:
Originally Posted by cahpsuth View Post
I think 9/11 happened because your government lulled you into a false sense of security, having you believe it could not or would not occur.Even now, how many t.v. progamme makers and newspapers have shown security measures to be a mockery. If someone really wants to do damage they can,despite even the most stringent security measures.
Goes to show they only need to be right once and we have to be right all the time.
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Old 10-31-2006, 04:52 AM
 
1,104 posts, read 3,062,100 times
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They don't need to attack us again. Last year I saw a special about Bin Laden and I remember when they were talking about one of his videos, they were translating that he hit the big money making area of NYC for a reason. I don't remember the show that well, but basically he was saying by hitting us there, he would be hitting us where we would hurt the most and with the fear that would bring we would end up destroying ourselves. Something like that.
We're giving him what he wants. He doesn't have to attack again. Remember the other super power--the USSR? Not a super power anymore--went broke fighting Afghanistan. I think this administration is taking us down. Bin Laden doesn't have to do a thing.
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Old 10-31-2006, 08:58 AM
 
11,598 posts, read 17,560,663 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mb919 View Post
Except steel melts at temperatures of 2400 degrees F. The jet fuel only heated to 1800F. .

That is correct. But what you forget is that the STRENGTH of steel decreases with heat and it loses half its strength when temps gets up to 1,000 degrees plus. The heat from the fires weakened the central steel columns, the longspan floor trusses, and cross trusses. In addition the initial impact severed load bearing columns.

As the building started to collapse the weight of the collapsing portion pulverized the load bearing columns below it.

The "detonation" theory is rubbish. The NIST (National Institute of Standards and Technology) studied the collapse for several years and explained thouroughly the collapse from an engineering standpoint. The whole "controlled detonation" theory is an internet romour type thing that started from one engineer, Van Romero, who viewed the video years ago and stated that it was a controlled detonation. He quickly retracted his theory but not before it got picked up by the internet conspiracy kooks.

I know people love consipracy theories, the grassy knoll and all that, but it just ain't so.
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Old 10-31-2006, 09:14 AM
 
11,598 posts, read 17,560,663 times
Reputation: 17323
Quote:
Originally Posted by mb919 View Post
What if there were some other official government version of 9/11, but one of the popular "tin foil hat" theories said that the whole thing was caused by a gimpy 70-year old guy dragging around a dialysis kit in the mountains of Afghanistan, and from some godforsaken cave managed to coordinate 25 hijackers (who by the way were all pretty much losers at life) and have them take down the most sophisticated air defense system on the planet? Pretty kooky, right? (
Except that in 2001 Bin Laden, a former engineerer by trade and multimillionaire by family inheritance, had a whole nation of resources at his disposal and was a leading member of society in Taliban ruled downtown Kabul (as downtown as it gets) with a sophisticated communication network of followers throughout the world.

In 2002 he became a gimpy old man drapping around a dialysis kit hiding in some cave in the mountains of Afhanistan or Pakistan running away from the US Marines, resorting to cartoonish videos or tapes (I guess he can't even get videos anymore) smuggled out by donkey to communicate with his followers.
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