U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-30-2014, 06:34 PM
 
584 posts, read 1,133,139 times
Reputation: 1368

Advertisements

Recently on Fox News, talking head Bill O'Reilly came to the conclusion that white privilege was a big old lie created by evil liberals to instill guilt in the hearts of blue blooded white people who have never benefited in a society that is dominated by white people. Nothing more poignant than a rich white guy telling you how white privilege doesn't exist. In the same broadcast, he said that while white privilege doesn't exist at all but in reality Asian Americans are the truly privileged race in America because Asians earn more than white people on average and have higher levels of educational attainment, stronger family structure, lower incarceration rates etc. Ultimately, O'Reilly ignorant view point smacks of privilege:

Sheltered White Men | Abagond

The whole model minority stereotype for Asians is widely accepted to be a myth that was created using skewed statistical data during the 1960's. The mainstream media, owned and operated by monied whites, wanted to derail momentum and support for blacks during the Civil Rights movement by saying that blacks were failing to succeed in America en masse not due to institutional racism, but due to not working hard like Asian Americans.

The cornerstone arguments of Asians as the model minority have been debunked time and time again. Asian immigrants have higher levels of education, generally, because the flow of immigration to America over the Pacific is very controlled. Only Asians with money and education can afford to relocate across the Pacific for the most part. But the same can be said of recent African immigrants who also have higher educational attainment levels than whites. Immigrants who can afford to move to America from overseas who aren't fleeing as a result of a bloody civil war (i.e. Cambodia, Liberia, El Salvador) generally fare better in the U.S. regardless of ethnicity. And these same groups fleeing war-torn countries often bring a culture of violence with them and form gangs in America because they were literally raised in warzones.

Asian Americans generally have higher incomes than whites because Asian Americans are highly concentrated in a handful of higher priced areas of the country mainly in the West Coast in California and in and around major East Coast population centers where the cost of living is much higher than the national average. Hundreds of millions of whites in rural areas in flyover states have lower wages, but a corresponding lower cost of living. In California you would be hard pressed to buy a house for $100K in the worst blocks of East Oakland.

The Model Minority Image : Asian-Nation :: Asian American History, Demographics, & Issues

Also, Asian Americans are not a monolithic group. Southeast Asian groups in America are much more likely to be poor, uneducated, unemployed, live in high crime inner city areas and engage in gang/criminal activity. Hmong and Cambodian Americans have higher poverty rates than even blacks and Latinos. Also, much like blacks and Latinos in America, Asian gang membership is outsized compared to the population of Asians in America as a whole. Asians represent 5% of the American population but represent 6% of the gang population. On the other hand, whites represent 77% of America but only 13% of America's documented gang members are white. Gangs form out of a necessity to police ones own group and protect themselves in the face of an oppressive dominant society.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gangs_in_the_United_States

In addition, even Asians who come here to America to open small businesses often fulfill a niche that no sane white person would step up to do. For instance, Many Korean immigrants found a niche pooling their money together to open up liquor stores, deli's, corner stores, laundromats and restaurants in high crime predominantly black inner city areas where corporate chain stores and white business owners would never dare set up shop. In filling this niche, countless episodes of violence have been directed at Asian shopkeepers in American inner city areas for decades. The 1992 riots in Los Angeles was probably the biggest example of violent social unrest caused by mounting racial tensions between Asian store owners and their ghetto clientele in South Central L.A. in the early 90's.

But it seems that Mr. O'Reilly is blind to the privilege you are afforded being a member of the race which dominates American society. White privilege is more than monetary. White privilege is the fact that America is designed to suit your needs. It is the fact that white is seen as "normal" in America. It is the fact that many whites call themselves simply "American" and do not have to hyphenate their ethnicity unlike all other races are forced to like blacks who are ignorantly called "African American" although black people have resided in America since before the Declaration of Independence was signed. White privilege is turning on the TV and seeing people of you race widely represented in a non-stereotypical fashion. Seriously, Black Entertainment Television was the most racist thing in the universe before it slightly changed its programming (after years of protesting) to show something else other than extremely raunchy soft porn-esque Rap and R&B videos glorifying thug life, drug dealing, unsustainable material excess in the most expensive name-brand cars and clothes, drug and alcohol abuse, promiscuous sex and an unattainable standard of "beauty" and sexual acuity all day everyday. White privilege is not having all males of your race completely emasculated and desexualized in the mainstream media and shorted to a running gag of a dorky autistic foreign exchange student with a poor grasp of the English language. White privilege is not being denied an individual personality in being defined by stereotypes the way all minorities are by the greater society.

The Buie Knife: 50 Examples of White Privilege in Daily Life

What riding my bike has taught me about white privilege – Quartz

New York Times columnist upends Bill O’Reilly’s denial of ‘white privilege’ - The Washington Post

Last edited by LunaticVillage; 08-30-2014 at 07:02 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-30-2014, 06:50 PM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
33,235 posts, read 20,075,992 times
Reputation: 12984
This is the video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gea58YrbuoU
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-30-2014, 07:00 PM
 
24,843 posts, read 32,375,963 times
Reputation: 11453
I agree with O'Reilly.

Look at who the POTUS made into a hero......Mike Brown.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-30-2014, 07:11 PM
 
265 posts, read 164,430 times
Reputation: 221
Gosh, when will O'Reilly write his autobiography entitled Killing America, exposing how the entirety of corporate media makes people run laps chasing their own tails while snarling at each other as they all chase their own tails? I'd love a chapter that explains how he keeps a straight face while bloviating on & on about such nonsense as a lack of racial privilege by the (admittedly waning) racial majority of the country.

I'd read that one.

As for Asians, which I guess he means the Chinese primarily? They do have a much more cohesive family life and they comprehend hard work and learning things, something that other races in America have a hard time grasping as they dream of Kim's tush and Jay-Z's money all while stoned and shopping. Oh and concerning themselves with a faerie-tale never-ending crusade for something called 'rights', something they claim they have but give away whenever it is convenient for them, freeing up time to get stoned, go shopping and to devote endless oodles of time spent fantasizing.

That said, I agree about the education and familial gaps in America.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-30-2014, 07:24 PM
 
Location: Missouri, USA
4,342 posts, read 2,971,301 times
Reputation: 2026
*One point of criticism...to me it looks like the U.S. entertainment media is very much on the side of minorities, for the most part. Most minorities on T.V. seem to be depicted as wise, oppressed saints. American T.V. seems quite thorough about making everything politically correct, except for an abundance of Caucasian television characters...although those minority characters that are depicted are almost always depicted as better people than most of the Caucasian characters.

Muslim characters, black characters, Native American Characters usually seem depicted as better people, more intelligent people, and more cautious people than their reckless, stupid Caucasian counterparts. (unless the Muslim character is about to shoot a bunch of people).

You mentioned BET and rap videos, and I agree that they depict African Americans negatively. I don't many other television shows that do that.

Would anyone like to counter this?


The rest seems reasonable...although I've never understood why more members of minorities don't just abandon their culture if they want to, including their describing themselves as members of their minority...and try to help out their racial/cultural community without participating in that culture, if they see fit to help out their racial/cultural community. Why don't more members of minorities just start referring to themselves as Americans too if they want to, rather than members of a race? I know two black gay anime lovers. I don't know how hard it was for them...but I know it does happen now and again.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-30-2014, 07:34 PM
 
265 posts, read 164,430 times
Reputation: 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clintone View Post
*One point of criticism...to me it looks like the U.S. entertainment media is very much on the side of minorities, for the most part. Most minorities on T.V. seem to be depicted as wise, oppressed saints. American T.V. seems quite thorough about making everything politically correct, except for an abundance of Caucasian television characters...although those minority characters that are depicted are almost always depicted as better people than most of the Caucasian characters.

Muslim characters, black characters, Native American Characters usually seem depicted as better people, more intelligent people, and more cautious people than their reckless, stupid Caucasian counterparts. (unless the Muslim character is about to shoot a bunch of people).

You mentioned BET and rap videos, and I agree that they depict African Americans negatively. I don't many other television shows that do that.

Would anyone like to counter this?
I think that corporations realize that shoppers are shoppers no matter their skin. Also, in order to run global empires they can't have racial hate being linked to them by a subsidiary or a shared employee amongst companies. Who owns the movie-makers? The global corporations! They just call themselves artists rather than mass-marketers.

As for the artistic disparity? White Americans and Europeans tend to have a superior view of themselves and in order to function alongside differently-colored people they need to be brought down a rung or so. Commensurately, people from other places tend to feel lost outside their own culture and need to see something that will make them feel as if they have something to offer. Take a look at the bevy of Chinese-themed movies or Asian characters in movies in the middle part of the first decade of this century. They weren't just about kicking butt, but also about how everyone is different but alike enough to get along and find common ground. It basically comes down to a cultural indoctrination, the same sort that allowed for the racism now is utilized to create a desire for a diverse ethnic climate.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-30-2014, 07:38 PM
 
7,371 posts, read 4,633,998 times
Reputation: 3133
Quote:
Originally Posted by LunaticVillage View Post
Recently on Fox News, talking head Bill O'Reilly came to the conclusion that white privilege was a big old lie created by evil liberals to instill guilt in the hearts of blue blooded white people who have never benefited in a society that is dominated by white people. Nothing more poignant than a rich white guy telling you how white privilege doesn't exist. In the same broadcast, he said that while white privilege doesn't exist at all but in reality Asian Americans are the truly privileged race in America because Asians earn more than white people on average and have higher levels of educational attainment, stronger family structure, lower incarceration rates etc. Ultimately, O'Reilly ignorant view point smacks of privilege:

Sheltered White Men | Abagond

The whole model minority stereotype for Asians is widely accepted to be a myth that was created using skewed statistical data during the 1960's. The mainstream media, owned and operated by monied whites, wanted to derail momentum and support for blacks during the Civil Rights movement by saying that blacks were failing to succeed in America en masse not due to institutional racism, but due to not working hard like Asian Americans.

The cornerstone arguments of Asians as the model minority have been debunked time and time again. Asian immigrants have higher levels of education, generally, because the flow of immigration to America over the Pacific is very controlled. Only Asians with money and education can afford to relocate across the Pacific for the most part. But the same can be said of recent African immigrants who also have higher educational attainment levels than whites. Immigrants who can afford to move to America from overseas who aren't fleeing as a result of a bloody civil war (i.e. Cambodia, Liberia, El Salvador) generally fare better in the U.S. regardless of ethnicity. And these same groups fleeing war-torn countries often bring a culture of violence with them and form gangs in America because they were literally raised in warzones.

Asian Americans generally have higher incomes than whites because Asian Americans are highly concentrated in a handful of higher priced areas of the country mainly in the West Coast in California and in and around major East Coast population centers where the cost of living is much higher than the national average. Hundreds of millions of whites in rural areas in flyover states have lower wages, but a corresponding lower cost of living. In California you would be hard pressed to buy a house for $100K in the worst blocks of East Oakland.

The Model Minority Image : Asian-Nation :: Asian American History, Demographics, & Issues

Also, Asian Americans are not a monolithic group. Southeast Asian groups in America are much more likely to be poor, uneducated, unemployed, live in high crime inner city areas and engage in gang/criminal activity. Hmong and Cambodian Americans have higher poverty rates than even blacks and Latinos. Also, much like blacks and Latinos in America, Asian gang membership is outsized compared to the population of Asians in America as a whole. Asians represent 5% of the American population but represent 6% of the gang population. On the other hand, whites represent 77% of America but only 13% of America's documented gang members are white. Gangs form out of a necessity to police ones own group and protect themselves in the face of an oppressive dominant society.

Gangs in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In addition, even Asians who come here to America to open small businesses often fulfill a niche that no sane white person would step up to do. For instance, Many Korean immigrants found a niche pooling their money together to open up liquor stores, deli's, corner stores, laundromats and restaurants in high crime predominantly black inner city areas where corporate chain stores and white business owners would never dare set up shop. In filling this niche, countless episodes of violence have been directed at Asian shopkeepers in American inner city areas for decades. The 1992 riots in Los Angeles was probably the biggest example of violent social unrest caused by mounting racial tensions between Asian store owners and their ghetto clientele in South Central L.A. in the early 90's.

But it seems that Mr. O'Reilly is blind to the privilege you are afforded being a member of the race which dominates American society. White privilege is more than monetary. White privilege is the fact that America is designed to suit your needs. It is the fact that white is seen as "normal" in America. It is the fact that many whites call themselves simply "American" and do not have to hyphenate their ethnicity unlike all other races are forced to like blacks who are ignorantly called "African American" although black people have resided in America since before the Declaration of Independence was signed. White privilege is turning on the TV and seeing people of you race widely represented in a non-stereotypical fashion. Seriously, Black Entertainment Television was the most racist thing in the universe before it slightly changed its programming (after years of protesting) to show something else other than extremely raunchy soft porn-esque Rap and R&B videos glorifying thug life, drug dealing, unsustainable material excess in the most expensive name-brand cars and clothes, drug and alcohol abuse, promiscuous sex and an unattainable standard of "beauty" and sexual acuity all day everyday. White privilege is not having all males of your race completely emasculated and desexualized in the mainstream media and shorted to a running gag of a dorky autistic foreign exchange student with a poor grasp of the English language. White privilege is not being denied an individual personality in being defined by stereotypes the way all minorities are by the greater society.

The Buie Knife: 50 Examples of White Privilege in Daily Life

What riding my bike has taught me about white privilege – Quartz

New York Times columnist upends Bill O’Reilly’s denial of ‘white privilege’ - The Washington Post
It's funny how you spend so much time and effort disproving the existence of Asian privilege but your proof of white privilege amounts to nothing but a load of nonsense about hyphenated names and television programs.

Sounds like a desperate attempt to assert victimhood where you want the victimhood to be.

If you want to put forth a convincing argument for the existence of white privilege in today's society you are going to have to do a better job than that. Your drivel about hyphenated names amounts to less than nothing when set against affirmative action, anti-discrimination laws, hate speech laws, etc. So one one hand you hyphenate your race name and don't like the way you're portrayed on television shows while on the other hand you get preferential treatment in government contracts, hiring, small business loans, and university entrance. Take a wild guess which one carries more weight.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-30-2014, 08:36 PM
 
Location: Inland Empire, Calif
2,887 posts, read 4,813,434 times
Reputation: 2791
Quote:
Originally Posted by LunaticVillage View Post
Recently on Fox News, talking head Bill O'Reilly came to the conclusion that white privilege was a big old lie created by evil liberals to instill guilt in the hearts of blue blooded white people who have never benefited in a society that is dominated by white people. Nothing more poignant than a rich white guy telling you how white privilege doesn't exist. In the same broadcast, he said that while white privilege doesn't exist at all but in reality Asian Americans are the truly privileged race in America because Asians earn more than white people on average and have higher levels of educational attainment, stronger family structure, lower incarceration rates etc. Ultimately, O'Reilly ignorant view point smacks of privilege:

Sheltered White Men | Abagond

The whole model minority stereotype for Asians is widely accepted to be a myth that was created using skewed statistical data during the 1960's. The mainstream media, owned and operated by monied whites, wanted to derail momentum and support for blacks during the Civil Rights movement by saying that blacks were failing to succeed in America en masse not due to institutional racism, but due to not working hard like Asian Americans.

The cornerstone arguments of Asians as the model minority have been debunked time and time again. Asian immigrants have higher levels of education, generally, because the flow of immigration to America over the Pacific is very controlled. Only Asians with money and education can afford to relocate across the Pacific for the most part. But the same can be said of recent African immigrants who also have higher educational attainment levels than whites. Immigrants who can afford to move to America from overseas who aren't fleeing as a result of a bloody civil war (i.e. Cambodia, Liberia, El Salvador) generally fare better in the U.S. regardless of ethnicity. And these same groups fleeing war-torn countries often bring a culture of violence with them and form gangs in America because they were literally raised in warzones.

Asian Americans generally have higher incomes than whites because Asian Americans are highly concentrated in a handful of higher priced areas of the country mainly in the West Coast in California and in and around major East Coast population centers where the cost of living is much higher than the national average. Hundreds of millions of whites in rural areas in flyover states have lower wages, but a corresponding lower cost of living. In California you would be hard pressed to buy a house for $100K in the worst blocks of East Oakland.

The Model Minority Image : Asian-Nation :: Asian American History, Demographics, & Issues

Also, Asian Americans are not a monolithic group. Southeast Asian groups in America are much more likely to be poor, uneducated, unemployed, live in high crime inner city areas and engage in gang/criminal activity. Hmong and Cambodian Americans have higher poverty rates than even blacks and Latinos. Also, much like blacks and Latinos in America, Asian gang membership is outsized compared to the population of Asians in America as a whole. Asians represent 5% of the American population but represent 6% of the gang population. On the other hand, whites represent 77% of America but only 13% of America's documented gang members are white. Gangs form out of a necessity to police ones own group and protect themselves in the face of an oppressive dominant society.

Gangs in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In addition, even Asians who come here to America to open small businesses often fulfill a niche that no sane white person would step up to do. For instance, Many Korean immigrants found a niche pooling their money together to open up liquor stores, deli's, corner stores, laundromats and restaurants in high crime predominantly black inner city areas where corporate chain stores and white business owners would never dare set up shop. In filling this niche, countless episodes of violence have been directed at Asian shopkeepers in American inner city areas for decades. The 1992 riots in Los Angeles was probably the biggest example of violent social unrest caused by mounting racial tensions between Asian store owners and their ghetto clientele in South Central L.A. in the early 90's.

But it seems that Mr. O'Reilly is blind to the privilege you are afforded being a member of the race which dominates American society. White privilege is more than monetary. White privilege is the fact that America is designed to suit your needs. It is the fact that white is seen as "normal" in America. It is the fact that many whites call themselves simply "American" and do not have to hyphenate their ethnicity unlike all other races are forced to like blacks who are ignorantly called "African American" although black people have resided in America since before the Declaration of Independence was signed. White privilege is turning on the TV and seeing people of you race widely represented in a non-stereotypical fashion. Seriously, Black Entertainment Television was the most racist thing in the universe before it slightly changed its programming (after years of protesting) to show something else other than extremely raunchy soft porn-esque Rap and R&B videos glorifying thug life, drug dealing, unsustainable material excess in the most expensive name-brand cars and clothes, drug and alcohol abuse, promiscuous sex and an unattainable standard of "beauty" and sexual acuity all day everyday. White privilege is not having all males of your race completely emasculated and desexualized in the mainstream media and shorted to a running gag of a dorky autistic foreign exchange student with a poor grasp of the English language. White privilege is not being denied an individual personality in being defined by stereotypes the way all minorities are by the greater society.

The Buie Knife: 50 Examples of White Privilege in Daily Life

What riding my bike has taught me about white privilege – Quartz

New York Times columnist upends Bill O’Reilly’s denial of ‘white privilege’ - The Washington Post
What a lot of energy you wasted to prove that you're wrong...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-30-2014, 08:45 PM
 
Location: Iowa, USA
6,553 posts, read 3,278,614 times
Reputation: 3801
Why do we spend so much time debating which race is most privileged and which race has it worse? The very fact that we have this discussion is sufficient proof that racism is still an issue. It's only evolved form open discrimination, which was a definitive element of America's past. We need to strive to view racial constructs as unimportant if we want racism to not exist. If we eliminate the concept of race, which is itself a man made social construction based on appearance, we eliminate racism. To do this, we'd have to let go of our national pride or our pride in our heritage, which I find both ridiculous to being with, but I know that many people will have trouble not boasting the fact that they are American, even if the only reason they're American is by accident of birth.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-30-2014, 09:04 PM
 
Location: Missouri, USA
4,342 posts, read 2,971,301 times
Reputation: 2026
Quote:
Originally Posted by BluntBoo View Post
I think that corporations realize that shoppers are shoppers no matter their skin. Also, in order to run global empires they can't have racial hate being linked to them by a subsidiary or a shared employee amongst companies. Who owns the movie-makers? The global corporations! They just call themselves artists rather than mass-marketers.
I don't understand whether you're agreeing or disagreeing with me with the section above. Do you agree with me that most of T.V. makes Caucasians appear like worse people than minority groups? I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing...that's just how I see it.

Quote:
As for the artistic disparity? White Americans and Europeans tend to have a superior view of themselves and in order to function alongside differently-colored people they need to be brought down a rung or so.
I don't know what you mean by this. What do you mean by "brought down a rung or so?" How would this be done? I don't think having more respect for non-white people would influence how well most white people function alongside them.

If you're referring to white-flight from urban environments...I'm pretty confident that's usually not because the white inhabitants dislike black people. It's because the white people have more money and can afford to leave and less of the black people can...or it's because the black people want to be around other black people.

If you're referring to white people not having black friends...that's not necessarily a supremacist mindset either. That could be just a preference for a similar culture.

What racism remains is probably not do to much white racial pride. We can see from talking to most white people (at least those I know) how dead that concept has been for a couple decades. We can also see it on entertainment media. I can only assume it's more due to an individualistic urge to make cash...so some people will get hired less and get loans less because of racial statistics.

I wouldn't say white people think they're better than other groups...but there could still be a large percentage of us more inclined to assist ourselves than society. Greed makes more sense to me as a driving force for racial inequality than racial patriotism...which has been spat on by society for decades. Expressing any racial patriotism as a member of the white majority not only doesn't benefit oneself, but is political suicide.

Quote:
Commensurately, people from other places tend to feel lost outside their own culture and need to see something that will make them feel as if they have something to offer. Take a look at the bevy of Chinese-themed movies or Asian characters in movies in the middle part of the first decade of this century. They weren't just about kicking butt, but also about how everyone is different but alike enough to get along and find common ground. It basically comes down to a cultural indoctrination, the same sort that allowed for the racism now is utilized to create a desire for a diverse ethnic climate.
I don't get that part in bold. I've never understood that. I'm more or less an asexual male. I have two friends. One is dark-skinned and from Pakistan. His mother doesn't speak English. I used to have Tourette's Syndrome (where you twitch and mutter). My other friend is a woman who lives with her very southern mom and her three dogs and two cats. I understand a bit about adversity...and don't care. Maybe I don't understand as much as people of minorities though.

I am of the opinion of F*** you to absolutely anyone who insists I try to impress them, who is not paying me for it. My car looks like hell because I'm too lazy to clean it. A little extra time is worth much more to me than the respect of others.

I agree with the underlined section though.

Last edited by Clintone; 08-30-2014 at 09:14 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top