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Old 09-05-2014, 08:16 AM
 
Location: Santa Monica
36,853 posts, read 17,360,513 times
Reputation: 14459

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Quote:
Originally Posted by irspow View Post
"Regulations" almost without exception, are initiations of force. Supposedly stopping "crimes" before they occur. Assuming guilt of some sort ahead of time instead of a presumption of innocence. Evil, stupid, and destructive State aggression. The law should be designed to retaliate against crimes that have occurred instead of initiating force against crimes that might happen. But that would be too rational for an irrational fictional creation like the State.
But the State is smarter than us! We need it. Without it we'd have no idea where to put a stop sign, drink dirty water, and use termite infested wood to build our houses!

The State loves us! Why else would it have so many rules for us to follow?

(end sarcasm)
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Old 09-05-2014, 08:16 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,191,640 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Carbonni View Post
In the long run they can not win when it is presented like this article.

using sting operations and guns-drawn raids usually reserved for terrorists and drug lords - to eliminate unpasteurized milk.

We now have the legal right and ability to record these raids and place them for all to see. Heavily armed thugs coming down on small farmers is not going to go over well.
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Old 09-05-2014, 08:17 AM
 
4,873 posts, read 3,601,591 times
Reputation: 3881
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
Most regulations are stupid regulations.

They only serve to increase the size and power of government.
And keep people from dying due to eating tainted meat or water or whatever.
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Old 09-05-2014, 08:22 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,191,640 times
Reputation: 17209
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
And keep people from dying due to eating tainted meat or water or whatever.
There was a need for some regulations. I'm not one arguing for no regulations but what has happened is once the common sense regulations are in place those who have those jobs have to come up with more extreme rulings to try and justify their existence.

Once common sense regulations are in place the regulatory agency has no need to grow and that isn't how our government currently works. The agencies must get larger, needed or not, so this is what we get.

Just say no.
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Old 09-05-2014, 08:28 AM
 
Location: The ends DO NOT justify the means!!!
4,783 posts, read 3,741,829 times
Reputation: 1336
Again, regulation presumes guilt ahead of time. That is an initiation of force, it is immoral. There is no reason why "presumption of guilt" regulations cannot be replaced with laws that punish those who commit crimes or harm others. We are all supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. If the guiding principle is "preemtive strikes" against potential crimes, we are all criminals and guilty until proven innocent. However, with "regulations" we have already been punished even if we are later proven innocent.
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Old 09-05-2014, 08:29 AM
 
33,387 posts, read 34,837,332 times
Reputation: 20030
Quote:
Originally Posted by EmeraldCityWanderer View Post
While I agree the regulations on cheese sold is a bit on the weird side. However, the countries with the better cheese tend to have more regulations on productions so they can sell these cheeses. We chose to regulate producers less so outputted products need to be less likely to harbor bacteria. Raw milk in many big farms contains all sorts of nasty things...even including resistant TB and Anthrax (in the soil).

It is always pretty nutty to take issue with one regulation, especially just cheese, and say all regulations are terrible. Regulations on things like doctors having the ability to practice medicine, medications having the effective ingredient instead of 50% morphine (like 19th century snake oils), and so your toothpaste isn't a mix of emulsifiers and Chinese newspapers.

If there is a regulation you don't like, reform it. I would back you.

Most libertarians I have spoken to are of the mind that some are good/bad...but often hem and haw about which ones those might be till you want to slap them for dancing around the issue like a bear in a tutu. Awkward, hilarious, and they just want it to be over.

The other camp just seems to regurgitate "free market" like a brainless parrot. Even when it is pointed out these regulations make sure we prevent illness/death/injury before it happens. Compared to "free market" ideals which is to sell whatever and then bring litigation against producers after people have become harmed (and died) by the products. Bringing the burden on the family/person that was harmed to prove conclusively that it was the product (if the person is still alive), connect with other harmed persons, find the producers, and hope to hell they have some money to pay compensation.
well said. proper regulation i have no issue with, never had. its when the government decided arbitrarily to change regulations without solid science behind the changes, or without good reason to change, is when i have an issue. in this case cheese. the previous regulation worked for what 100 years? if there are no issues, then there is no need to make any changes.
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Old 09-05-2014, 08:31 AM
 
Location: A great city, by a Great Lake!
15,896 posts, read 11,987,093 times
Reputation: 7502
Quote:
Originally Posted by shooting4life View Post
Most regulations are stupid regulations.

They only serve to increase the size and power of government.


A regulation I learned about recently was completely silly. A family member passed away recently. The family wanted to scatter her ashes on a lack in a neighboring state. My state required the family to get a permit and pay a fee of $50 to take the ashes out of state and if they wanted to scatter the ashes in state they would need to hire a ash spreader to do it.

Wow, that is asinine!
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Old 09-05-2014, 08:31 AM
 
9,470 posts, read 6,969,002 times
Reputation: 2177
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankMiller View Post
And keep people from dying due to eating tainted meat or water or whatever.
No, to keep you believing you're dependent upon them for your life and well-being, so you can be reliably counted on to keep voting for them, no matter how they rip you off, abuse you, and use you for their own enrichment.
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Old 09-05-2014, 08:32 AM
 
9,470 posts, read 6,969,002 times
Reputation: 2177
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
In the long run they can not win when it is presented like this article.

using sting operations and guns-drawn raids usually reserved for terrorists and drug lords - to eliminate unpasteurized milk.

We now have the legal right and ability to record these raids and place them for all to see. Heavily armed thugs coming down on small farmers is not going to go over well.
It's called intimidation.

They WANT you to video them, so others will comply, out of fear of the guns going off.
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Old 09-05-2014, 08:34 AM
 
26,660 posts, read 13,743,804 times
Reputation: 19118
At least they will still let us have our shelf stable Velveeta cheese because that is really healthy "cheese".
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