What is wrong with retail/service being paid a "liveable" wage? (election, elect)

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by highlife2

So its probably a good thing that most people are scardy cats becuase commercial building materials and property is already sky high. Could you imagine even more people demanding it.

Sure I could imagine more people. What about it?

Darwinism works. Whether its Nature or Social or Business.....cream rises to the top.

Originally Posted by highlife2

I wonder what the world would look like if no one murdered people to preserve their economic capitial.

Misrepresentation
If the misrepresentation occurs on purpose, then it is an example of lying. If the misrepresentation occurs during a debate in which there is misrepresentation of the opponent’s claim, then it would be the cause of a straw man fallacy.

What foreign power is taking all of the resources from the US and then telling Americans if they want running water -- a single water pump for a village of 3,000 people -- they'll have to borrow money from the IMF?

Originally Posted by highlife2

Some people are good at kiniving and manipulating markets and others are good at making jets and bombs, we just play to our strengths right.

That is an unsustainable model.

It will collapse. It's collapsing now. It will continue to collapse. That's when Darwinism kicks in....find a better way that is sustainable over the long-term, or cease to exist.

Originally Posted by highlife2

Also right now there are way too many poeple which drives prices of labor down, it was not until the black plauge that people were able to leverage their labor to actually buy anything of value becuase there were not very many people around.

That's not how it works.

At the time of the Black Plague the only Skill-sets were prostitute, agricultural slave, village idiot, religious zealot, lesser noble and greater noble.

There are now more than 800 Skill-sets.

It isn't every unemployed person versus all other unemployed people.

You only compete against other unemployed persons with your Skill-set, and even then, only if those persons have access to your Labor Market.

Originally Posted by highlife2

That is what started the rennesance.

No, that's not what started the Renaissance.

What started the Renaissance was the collapse of the Byzantine Empire.

As the empire started to collapse, the voluminous tomes in the libraries were transferred to the West for safe-keeping. That provided additional knowledge and different points of view, which led to the Renaissance.

What will come of the collapse of the US Empire?

Will the US be carved up by foreign powers like the Ottoman Empire?
Break-up into smaller States like the Austro-Hungarian Empire?
Devolve into warring factions like the Greek Empire?
Turn the 1st World into the Dark Ages like the Roman Empire?
Or create a period of enlightenment for BRICS just as the Byzantine Empire did for the West?

Imagining....

Mircea

[petch751]

Originally Posted by natalie469

That's just not true unless you are in the upper range where you're exact skills are needed.

The less skills you have the less you'll make. It's a simple concept. It's time you understand it.

[petch751]

Originally Posted by natalie469 View Post
That's just not true unless you are in the upper range where you're exact skills are needed.

Originally Posted by JimRom

I'm far from being "upper range" in anything, and the last time I took a job at the pay that was offered was when I was a teenager. Every job I've had since then I have gotten more money than what they were offering, even when I was new to the field.

But, hey, go ahead with your defeatist attitude. While you're moaning about how jobs don't pay enough, I and others like me are figuring out how to make more money.

People like Nat always want someone else to do things for them. Yes while people like me and you are always thinking and doing things that make us more money. If I waited for government I'd still be poor.

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated

Joe the business owner doesn't make any profit if his consumers are broke.

No, Joe has "a bad business model." Isn't that the standard Left-Wing response?

What's the 1st Law of Business?

You must provide a product or service that is in demand.

Taxing people to create artificial demand does not work.

Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated

Are you ever going to justify why I should be paying for emergency room visits for uninsured people?

Just as soon as you justify why I should be paying birth control and beer and dope and cable for other people.

Anyway, the question is moot, since you're willing to pay a tax to have universal healthcare.

Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated

Prices all over the world will decline based on demand, which we both know is on the horizon with our aging population. (Hint: Baby BOOMers.)

No.

Again, you display grotesque egotistical ethnocentrism.

Boomers are a phenomenon of the 1st World, and in particular of the Anglo World.

There was no boom in 2nd, 3rd and 4th World States, and as a point of fact, their populations are pyramids, with few elderly but many young.

Because BRICS is actually acting like Christians and developing States instead of raping and robbing them of wealth and profits, they will follow the same demographic curve as the US. Their Life-Spans from Birth will increase, just as their Life-Spans from Age 16 and from Age 65. As they gain affluence, their birth rates will start to decline.....but that will be in the middle of next century.

Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated

Go live in a country that allows you to do such.

That's economics that you don't understand.

Like many, you have a very child-like mentality based on only the concrete.

At one time in the US, you could buy a house earning $1.90/hour.

My father did in 1965, as did Millions of other Americans.

Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated

The U.S. "debt" is the liability function on the balance sheet. If you look around the world, we have 17 trillion (the debt) USD circulating in the globe between the private and foreign sectors.

But no, the sheep are too busy trying to cut "monetary inflation" despite the obvious direct correlation between monetary inflation and private sector wealth.

I've never said there was Monetary Inflation. In fact, I have repeatedly proven there isn't, or it's negligible as to have no impact.

The fatal flaw in your nonsense is that it assumes the rest of the World will buy your debt through Infinity.

You totally ignore the fact that Japan and China are hammering out a unified currency agreement, like the Euro for the Asia. Decoupling from the US Dollar is a requirement for Japan to fix its economy. If I were to guess, I'd say that currency will debut sometime after 2020.

So, the Brits and Germans are going to fall on the sword and take their entire GDP and buy US debt?

How's that work?

US debt already exceeds 25% of the World's GDP. I said you'd reach 33% in about 15 years, but your debt is growing faster. By 2042 (if not sooner), your debt will be 50% of World GDP.

Which part of "unsustainable" do you not understand?

Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated

So wait... what is monetary deflation then? Taxation.

No, and that contradicts the chart you posted.

Taxation does not remove or eliminate money, rather it merely redistributes and transfers money amongst different entities.

Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated

The U.S. government creates surpluses to destroy outlays. It will only make holders of remaining USD's richer at the expense of everyone else. Austerity is the blatant agenda for widening the gap between the rich and the poor. Why else does the GOP want to cut spending when a Democrat President gets elected?

Monetary inflation is monetary creation.
Monetary deflation is monetary destruction.

That's gibberish.

Are taxes subtracted from GDP?

Ooops...

Your talking points e-mail coordinator is dumber than a box of rocks.

As far as taxes, the only thing the government does is take the $1,500 I was going to spend on a Sound City SMF Tour Series head and two Sound City Twin 15 stacks wired in a series-parallel 4x12 X-pattern (and a B3 Leslie), and give that money to dope heads and alcoholics in the form of Food Stamps so they don't have to use their food money to buy beer and dope.

Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated

"Real" inflation is demand-pull inflation.

No.

Demand-pull Inflation is separate and distinct from Monetary Inflation.

The cause of Demand-pull Inflation is over-consumption. The only two possible solutions are to decrease Demand or increase Supply.

The morons are too dumb to understand that the US Dollar is not Fiat Currency.

The US Dollar is not backed by gold, but then no Law of Economics says it must be. Instead of being backed by gold, the US Dollar is backed by the value of products and services. Those products and services do not need to be produced in the US -- they can be produced outside the US.

Iraqi oil is a good example.

The Euro is introduced, it immediately has greater value than USD, and then Iraq announces its oil bourse. Shortly afterward, Iran announces its oil bourse.

The Saudis and the US are in a total panic.

If the Iraqis and the Iranians are selling 9 Million barrels of oil per day in any currency except US Dollars and Saudi Arabia is selling 9 Million barrels of oil per day in US Dollars, what is the sum of all fears?

And to make matters worse, you have Libya, Tunisia and Egypt all clamoring to sell oil and natural gas in Euros or basket currencies.

This chart explains it...




You have no idea how hopelessly utterly screwed you all are.

As more and more States start conducting trade exclusive in Euros instead of exclusive in USD, or in Rubles, Yuan, Rupee or basket currencies instead of USD, you'll see hyper-Monetary Inflation when that money starts moving.

Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated

"Real" inflation isn't measured by the CPI, because the Fed doesn't control how much Joe and John want to pay for their Park Avenue Apartment.

Not only are you talking gibberish in circles, you're completely wrong.

The CPI cannot measure Monetary Inflation per se, but it can and does measure Demand-pull Inflation and Cost-push Inflation.

Monetary Inflation affects everything by the same rate. If beef increases by 20%, then tampons increase by 20%, your wages increase 20%, your electric bill increases 20%, gasoline increases 20%, your health insurance, auto insurance, home insurance etc etc etc increases 20%. Everything that does not have a stipulated price by contract increases at the exact same rate.

The central bank has no reason to control how much anyone pays for anything.

The 1,539 separate economies are aggregated to 374 MSAs and of those 83 are used to determine CPI.

The prices are averaged. Effectively, you're getting the average of the average of the average, which is totally useless and masks many economic problems, as well as economic successes.

Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated

You have no way of telling that. Even then, hyper-monetary inflation =/= hyperinflation. Hyper monetary inflation is fixable.

Yes, I do have a way.

If you had a BA in Economics, as I do, then you would know, but you are uneducated, so you neither know nor understand.

In spite of the fact that I was graduated just over 10 years ago, I had no idea what an "Austrian" was.

We never discussed theory or economic schools of thought. It was all practical application and numbers crunching. The business has a problem, fix it; this employer has a problem, fix it; this city has a problem, fix it; this country has a problem, fix it.

We didn't sit around discussing the theoretical aspects of Price Elasticity. We calculated it. That's why I always mention ice cream. I teamed up with a major each in Marketing, MassCom, Accounting and Math, devised a survey, had the university's public policy institute conduct the survey with real people collecting real data, and then we analyzed the data.

My final exam in one class was fix Iran's economy (everyone got a different crap-hole country to do).

My PhD is not in Economics, it's in International Relations, but I took graduate level courses (where I learned to calculate things you don't understand) since domestic and foreign policy is inextricably intertwined with economic policy.

Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated

How do we fix hyper-monetary inflation? Taxation and interest rates.

No, that is not how. That's only possible in a Closed System, and even then, if the government spends what it taxes, you accomplish nothing. Raising taxes works only if the government uses the taxes to pay down debt.

Raising interest rates only works if the central bank simultaneously increases the [fractional] reserve requirements.

What you don't get is that the excess currency must be physically removed (or electronically eliminated), not collected and spent elsewhere.

Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated

If prices increased, it had nothing to do with the minimum wage.

Yes, it does. It enables continued over-consumption. You just haven't reached the tipping point yet.

And -- like all other minimum wage supporters -- you still refuse to explain how increasing the minimum wage makes the US globally competitive

Laughing at the superior intellect....

Mircea

[Mircea]

Originally Posted by Storm Eagle

Mircea I do not want to derail this thread but I have to ask what questions or issues I am avoiding I have been replying to other peoples responses seems you have no basis for this but I am sure you will post anther page long response of stuff that has nothing to do with the subject and strawmans galore.

Well, that's distressing....not only is your memory shorter than a paper plate, you can't even find your screen name on a page.

I'll refresh your memory...

Originally Posted by Storm Eagle

What about the responsibility of the employer to society to provide a safe good work environment and treat employees fan. When employers do not pay enough the rest of us have to pay yet we keep doing it and not keeping businesses responsible.

Originally Posted by Mircea

No, we don't have to pay.

False Dilemma
A reasoner who unfairly presents too few choices and then implies that a choice must be made among this short menu of choices is using the false dilemma fallacy, as does the person who accepts this faulty reasoning.

You have steadfastly refused to justify why I should buy beer for other people.

The immoral person is the one who robs me of money to ensure others can buy beer.

Morally...

Mircea

Your response was....

Originally Posted by Storm Eagle

Once again to the RWNJ's it is all about someone stealing from them they are obsessed about it not surprising by how selfish and immoral they are. When employes who work hard are not paid well it is the employers who are stealing from them from their hard earned money.

Why are you stealing my money?

If someone cannot afford to by food, then they cannot afford to buy beer and dope, right?

I can't afford to keep the thermostat set at 78°F in Winter and 68°F in Summer, but people on Welfare can.

That's because I'm paying for it.

On the bus Monday that's all them old skins were taking about was PIP. It's a welfare program, they pay $74 for utilities and then the tax-payers get soaked for the rest of the bill, so who gives a damn if the bill is $350?

Right?

It's your whole attitude that is FUBAR.

You do everything bass-ackwards.

Tax-payers should be paying the first $74 and they should be paying the balance, and watch the Magical Attitude Adjustment take place.

No more wasting electricity leaving lights on 24/7; no more leaving the TV on 24/7; no more setting the thermostat at 78°F in Winter ---- now it's set at 68°F and people wear sweaters and thermal underwear just like Billions and Billions and Billions of people have done for Thousands and Thousands of years and just like Billions and Billions still do.

It's the whole waste and throw away money when it's OPM Dolllars (Other People's Money). You have no respect.

See if you can address the issue this time instead of dodging....

Mircea

[GHOSTRIDER AZ]

Many Min. Wage earners are eligible for public asst. from the tax payer. Medicare, Housing , food , Stamps and the list goes on. If you make 25K a year or less the Welfare recipient can pad his income up to 50K worth of benefits courtesy of the tax payers.

So the liberals who screaming for Income Equality and Social Justice, these programs do not encourage people to go to the next level. Worst yet encourage generational welfare.

[highlife2]

Originally Posted by Mircea

Sure I could imagine more people. What about it?

Darwinism works. Whether its Nature or Social or Business.....cream rises to the top.



Misrepresentation
If the misrepresentation occurs on purpose, then it is an example of lying. If the misrepresentation occurs during a debate in which there is misrepresentation of the opponent’s claim, then it would be the cause of a straw man fallacy.

What foreign power is taking all of the resources from the US and then telling Americans if they want running water -- a single water pump for a village of 3,000 people -- they'll have to borrow money from the IMF?



That is an unsustainable model.

It will collapse. It's collapsing now. It will continue to collapse. That's when Darwinism kicks in....find a better way that is sustainable over the long-term, or cease to exist.



That's not how it works.

At the time of the Black Plague the only Skill-sets were prostitute, agricultural slave, village idiot, religious zealot, lesser noble and greater noble.

There are now more than 800 Skill-sets.

It isn't every unemployed person versus all other unemployed people.

You only compete against other unemployed persons with your Skill-set, and even then, only if those persons have access to your Labor Market.



No, that's not what started the Renaissance.

What started the Renaissance was the collapse of the Byzantine Empire.

As the empire started to collapse, the voluminous tomes in the libraries were transferred to the West for safe-keeping. That provided additional knowledge and different points of view, which led to the Renaissance.

What will come of the collapse of the US Empire?

Will the US be carved up by foreign powers like the Ottoman Empire?
Break-up into smaller States like the Austro-Hungarian Empire?
Devolve into warring factions like the Greek Empire?
Turn the 1st World into the Dark Ages like the Roman Empire?
Or create a period of enlightenment for BRICS just as the Byzantine Empire did for the West?

Imagining....

Mircea

If I had to bet, this one would be it. I am hoping that one of my skill sets anables me to minimize my exposure to demand pull inflation.

[freemkt]

Originally Posted by GHOSTRIDER AZ

Many Min. Wage earners are eligible for public asst. from the tax payer. Medicare, Housing , food , Stamps and the list goes on. If you make 25K a year or less the Welfare recipient can pad his income up to 50K worth of benefits courtesy of the tax payers.

So the liberals who screaming for Income Equality and Social Justice, these programs do not encourage people to go to the next level. Worst yet encourage generational welfare.

??? Source, please. Very little asst is available to working childless adults, especially if they share housing with other working adults.

[highlife2]

You know what is always in demand Mircea, oil and weapons. These are the only 2 fields I would ever work in.

Producing oil, refining or manufacture/development of weapons (not even so much refining unless they shut down a few refineries to constrict supply and increase the profit margin). It is the biggest money you can make.

I wonder why those things are in such high demand? I don't know its a mystery. Something to do with "tyrants" and them not being able to subvert the laws of economics, etc. Since these things are in strong demand they must still be trying lol.

[greywar]

Originally Posted by GHOSTRIDER AZ

Many Min. Wage earners are eligible for public asst. from the tax payer. Medicare, Housing , food , Stamps and the list goes on. If you make 25K a year or less the Welfare recipient can pad his income up to 50K worth of benefits courtesy of the tax payers.

So the liberals who screaming for Income Equality and Social Justice, these programs do not encourage people to go to the next level. Worst yet encourage generational welfare.

Might surprise you to know that I agree with this somewhat. I suspect we may disagree with the solution. Mine says we need a basic income that is not means tested.