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I hate to sound like a dick, but you're just wrong on every single point.
There would be an America with or without slavery(probably a better one). Most of the United States didn't have slavery. Canada didn't have slavery. To some extent it is true that certain parts of America did benefit from African slavery. But the real beneficiaries of African slavery were almost universally a small number of large plantation owners. Go read about Abraham Lincoln's vice president(Andrew Johnson), who was eager to get rid of slavery, because he knew it was creating a virtual "aristocracy" in the south.
The "best days" of America(at least economically) came after slavery was abolished. The "Gilded age". Or really, the age of industrialization. This industrialization and the ample natural resources of the United States is what powered America as the world power. Then the destruction of Europe in two World Wars is what finally propelled America to the relative greatness it is today.
The Spanish and Portugese had far more slaves in their colonies than the British. Yet, in pretty much every area of the world where slaves were imported in the greatest numbers, they are worse off economically. The southern United States is significantly poorer than the Northern states, and has always been that way.
There is absolutely no relationship whatsoever between the existence of slavery and the actual wealth of any country, or any region of the world. The opposite is true.
In fact, the United States is basically the only wealthy nation that has actually had slavery. And the richest countries in Europe were never involved in slavery, and most never even had colonies(IE Scandinavia).
The assumption that America is wealthy because of slavery, or even because of indentured servitude, is without any substance whatsoever.
The reason why most immigrants didn't go to the southern states was because slavery drives down wages. Basically, if you didn't own slaves, you couldn't make it. Thomas Jefferson used to remark that the average "free laborer" in the south was actually worse off than a slave. He was paid little more than what it cost to house and feed a slave, and he had to actually go out and find work. If he didn't find work, he could starve.
Which is why most immigrants, as well as "free blacks", went to the Northern states. Pennsylvania was called the "best poor man's colony".
In a sort of twist of irony, the only real beneficiaries of slavery in America, are actually the descendants of slaves. Had slavery never come to America, black people by and large wouldn't have come to America. Without slavery, the United States would look more like Canada. In fact, Canada would probably be significantly whiter than it is today had it not been for slavery coming to the United States.
Wow the racist slavery was good for black people argument.
Your ignorance about how vital slavery was to the early American economy is not surprising.
The south was the richest area of the nation by far during slavery. The 2million+ enslaved Americans were the largest financial source of wealth in all of the nation, and cotton was the nation's largest export.
Slavery was hugely important financially.
The rest of your post is arguing points I never made.
Yep, whites just sat around on their porches sipping tea back in them days whiles minorities did all the work (sarcasm on). If there were any white priviledge back then it is long gone for the most part today but then again some people love playing the eternal victim card and living in the past. They think it justifies their hatred of white people today especially those of the conservative persuasion.
Location: East St. Paul 651 forever (or North St. Paul) .
2,860 posts, read 3,378,075 times
Reputation: 1446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz
I think you are looking for simple solutions to complex problems. If you think you are going to run the non-whites out of St. Paul, you're supremely delusional. It would basically require a war, or something reminiscent of war. And I'm not convinced that your nuts are large enough for that. If they were, you wouldn't be living in East St. Paul. You would be putting actual plans in motion.
For all you know I could be running for county commissioner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamme73
Wow the racist slavery was good for black people argument.
Your ignorance about how vital slavery was to the early American economy is not surprising.
The south was the richest area of the nation by far during slavery. The 2million+ enslaved Americans were the largest financial source of wealth in all of the nation, and cotton was the nation's largest export.
Slavery was hugely important financially.
The rest of your post is arguing points I never made.
Are we going to go there again?
My state and my ancestors weren't even on this continent yet.
Further, as I state a page or more back my state is one of the best in the Union and we did it all on the backs of European-Americans.
Location: SF Bay Area (recent MN transplant...go gophers)
148 posts, read 148,962 times
Reputation: 368
Quote:
Originally Posted by Govie
Further, as I state a page or more back my state is one of the best in the Union and we did it all on the backs of European-Americans.
As someone who loves the state of Minnesota, and as a white man, I gotta say...the idea that the state is one of the best in that nation as a result of us lutefisk-ing up the place is ridiculous. We're ranked 15th on the "whitest state as a percentage of population" list as of the 2010 census, and 12th in 2000. Our substantial Native American population pretty much guaranteed that we never had the United States' highest percentage of crackers.
And ya know who's ranked higher than us on the "whitest state" list? Iowa, Wisconsin, South and North Dakota, Nebraska, Kentucky, and West Virginia. WEST VIR-FRICKIN-GINIA. The state that, while admittedly being very beautiful, is ranked near the bottom of pretty much every well-being category.
Being "built on the back of European-Americans" means jack squat.
And I know this is debunked earlier in the thread, but this:
Quote:
My state Minnesota has no racial past other than displacing Natives...
^^^What the hell is this?
Somebody already mentioned the disgusting act that happened in 1920 Duluth. There was also the Arthur and Edith Lee mob in 1931, the Plymouth Ave. riot of 1966, the 1968 Selby-Dale riot that happened IN YOUR CITY. There are three white supremacist groups and one black separatist group operating in the state as I'm typing this. Just because we aren't Mississippi doesn't mean racial tensions didn't break out...to say so is incredibly dense on your part.
A ticket to the Minnesota History Center costs $11. Buy one.
Sugar coat it all you want, green_mariner. Of course I've met cats that are way shady that are the same ethnicity as me but there are far more that aren't. (At least in all my dealings literally every day in the Twin Cities for 30 years).
We've had this discussion before. Just calling a spade a spade. 30 years ago Ray Widstrand NEVER would have been beaten to a vegetable down off Arcade and Minnehaha for being white if it wasn't for a certain group over there.
It's bull**** what happened to him and it's stuff like that gets me riled up.
lol at Redshadowz acting like he knows the East Side and what my (and many others') grievances are.
Maybe you need take a trip outside of the Twin Cities and see the rest of the country.
And by the way, I'm not sugar coating anything. Can you refute anything that I said? Can you honestly say
that i lied?
And while we're on the subject of the Twin Cities, I have to point this out. It is known that many poor Blacks moved to the Twin Cities from other places in the Midwest. However, you have NEVER thought about this. Alot of Midwest Blacks who are middle class and educated, they often move to cities like Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, Charlotte, DC, Northern Virginia. Have you once thought about why there aren't more middle class Blacks moving to the Twin Cities? Not saying they aren't moving there. I'm saying move are moving to other cities, as opposed to the Twin Cities.
My point is that it isn't as simple as you try to make it out to be. You ever asked yourself why more middle class Blacks move to Texas, Georgia, and North Carolina as oppose to Minnesota? You should ask because if it was mainly educated, middle class Blacks moving to the Twin Cities, things would look different. I look at it as the best and brightest of the Black population don't seem interested in moving to Minnesota in large numbers. I actually do the research about it.
And consider this. There are parts of LA Blacks cannot go to without the possibility of being shot and killed by Mexican gang members(not the average Mexican-American, but gangs), and those gangs will murder non-gang members. MS 13 is nothing to fool around with either.
And something else. I don't care what race the people who beat up Ray Widstrand was who beat him up. Let those perps get locked up. I don't care if they rot in prison. No sympathy from me. My problem is that all you do is complain about Black people. I've been jumped and beaten up by White people, and I don't go complaining about White people at every drop of the hat. I let those actions stick to those who actually did them. Hearing people complain about Blacks disturbs me because Blacks have been hated from day one in this country.
Agreed and HOW! The Lace Curtain Irish have MORE in common with Black people taking care of business than those "Irish" do with the Shanty Irish.
There are those who will complain "Blacks ruin neighborhoods". I say underclass segment of the Black population ruins things. Not much difference between the underclass segment of the Black population, and "rednecks". I should know. I live in the South and see some of this up close. The big factor that gets people out of those subcultures is education.
And with Minnesota, I have to explain this. Many of the working poor Blacks in other Midwest states starting going to Minnesota for jobs. However, the underclass followed them. Some were there to deal drugs, others went to get more welfare. One thing no one has ever considered is this. While there were educated, middle class Blacks moving to Minnesota, the main destinations for middle class Blacks have often been Texas, Georgia, North Carolina, and Virginia. Not nearly as many middle class Blacks have gone to Minnesota. And Wisconsin has experience a "Black Brain Drain", as in the best and brightest of the Black population is leaving. The #1 segment of the Black population that gets ignored in the educated Blacks/Black middle class.
Location: East St. Paul 651 forever (or North St. Paul) .
2,860 posts, read 3,378,075 times
Reputation: 1446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Dempsey's Left Foot
As someone who loves the state of Minnesota, and as a white man, I gotta say...the idea that the state is one of the best in that nation as a result of us lutefisk-ing up the place is ridiculous. We're ranked 15th on the "whitest state as a percentage of population" list as of the 2010 census, and 12th in 2000. Our substantial Native American population pretty much guaranteed that we never had the United States' highest percentage of crackers.
And ya know who's ranked higher than us on the "whitest state" list? Iowa, Wisconsin, South and North Dakota, Nebraska, Kentucky, and West Virginia. WEST VIR-FRICKIN-GINIA. The state that, while admittedly being very beautiful, is ranked near the bottom of pretty much every well-being category.
It's a junk stat you're talking about. If you don't know why (for numerous reasons), then I question your knowledge about the state.
There are those who will complain "Blacks ruin neighborhoods". I say underclass segment of the Black population ruins things. Not much difference between the underclass segment of the Black population, and "rednecks". I should know. I live in the South and see some of this up close. The big factor that gets people out of those subcultures is education.
And with Minnesota, I have to explain this. Many of the working poor Blacks in other Midwest states starting going to Minnesota for jobs. However, the underclass followed them. Some were there to deal drugs, others went to get more welfare. One thing no one has ever considered is this. While there were educated, middle class Blacks moving to Minnesota, the main destinations for middle class Blacks have often been Texas, Georgia, North Carolina, and Virginia. Not nearly as many middle class Blacks have gone to Minnesota. And Wisconsin has experience a "Black Brain Drain", as in the best and brightest of the Black population is leaving. The #1 segment of the Black population that gets ignored in the educated Blacks/Black middle class.
I def DON'T blame those Black dudes and ladies for getting out and, moving "back" down South between you Southerners having much better weather plus, as many Blacks are starting to admit: they are def "Southern" in culture in many ways.
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