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Old 09-23-2014, 01:43 PM
 
9,763 posts, read 10,503,495 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
It's relevant when people make patently false claims so stop handwaving.

Specific to the *mandate* let me break it down for you.

A non-mandated wage increase is driven by a business decision after weighing several options.
So, let's assume there is wage pressure at a grocery store in Iowa because there are higher paying jobs at the other grocery store down the street.

The store can:
1) Use non-wage benefits to keep employees like being flexible with hours and scheduling.
2) Hire the people that the other grocery store won't and hoping that your lower prices will offset poorer service. Say goodbye to those grocery baggers with downs syndrome and so forth.
3) etc.

This is why food prices at places like Aldi are half that of Whole Foods in our town. Guess where poorer people shop especially those on fixed incomes that are retired and would not gain additional income from a higher minimum wage?

I have now explained why they are not the same thing.

Now a question for you. Why do you feel a much higher NATIONAL minimum wage is a reasonable for both San Francisco and some small town in rural Iowa where housing (among other things) is 1/4 the price of San Fran?

Have you ever lived on your own, paying your own bills, in both a high and low income area? I have. I'm not sure you are getting where a lot of the opposition is coming from and this is it.
Again, I'm not discussing the merits of minimum wage law. Why is this so difficult?

I'm discussing the economic effects of rising wages. Claiming that rising wages have different economic effects based on whether they are mandated or voluntary is nonsense. ALL rising wages have THE SAME effect on an economy. Comprendes? Please stop responding with posts that are irrelevant to mine.
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Old 09-23-2014, 01:43 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,715 posts, read 31,063,711 times
Reputation: 9270
Quote:
Originally Posted by phma View Post
I have to respectively disagree with your statement. If what you said was correct then the states where right to work is in effect we should see increased manufacturing in those states. That is not the reality. I see what is created is working families that are more likely to rely on food stamps and other social programs to make ends meet. In service related jobs. As a supervisor that hired at $12.00 and $14.00 per/h that was my experience.
There are many examples in the auto industry where significant manufacturing has grown in non-UAW states - all from foreign based companies. Ohio, Alabama, Tennessee, Mississippi, Texas, etc.
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Old 09-23-2014, 01:46 PM
 
6,940 posts, read 9,650,561 times
Reputation: 3153
Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano View Post
Don't make that giant leap of indirect relationship. You cannot simply claim our wages are protected by the government. There is no floor for my pay - I lost significant compensation during the last recession. No law passed by Congress set a floor for my pay nor increased it.

As I am in the software business, my company employs people around the world. We compete for people everywhere.



The government protects your wage by restricting the free movement of people into your country. This limits the supply of labor leading to non-equilibrium wages. Is that hard for you to understand? I'm typing in English, correct?
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Old 09-23-2014, 03:14 PM
 
34,301 posts, read 15,561,632 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hoffdano View Post
There are many examples in the auto industry where significant manufacturing has grown in non-UAW states - all from foreign based companies. Ohio, Alabama, Tennessee, Mississippi, Texas, etc.
You are right about that. Point well made !!! The right to work states I have lived in don't have an auto industry. A lot could be said on the auto industry alone.
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Old 09-23-2014, 03:38 PM
 
22,619 posts, read 24,441,992 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quick Enough View Post
A prime example is the auto industry.

They big 3 sat on the laurels for years and let the Japan's take over the industy. But, hey, all those union workers still got raises even though sales were going through the basement and the cars were junk.


Union-Thuggery, kinda like the mafia protection racket.

Union-Thug-Representative: "You wanna work here.....you gotta join and pay up!".
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Old 09-23-2014, 03:41 PM
 
Location: Tyler, TX
23,612 posts, read 23,924,469 times
Reputation: 14932
This thread is still going?

Considering that this thread is based on a false premise, I guess what we have here is a demonstration of the fact that people will literally argue about nothing.

Weird.

Carry on...
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Old 09-23-2014, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,715 posts, read 31,063,711 times
Reputation: 9270
Quote:
Originally Posted by knowledgeiskey View Post



The government protects your wage by restricting the free movement of people into your country. This limits the supply of labor leading to non-equilibrium wages. Is that hard for you to understand? I'm typing in English, correct?
I get that. There are lots of reasons the country limits the flow of people, skilled or unskilled, into this country.

Shouldn't that cause a tightening supply of workers in all categories?

I stand by my comment that during the last recession wages were stagnant or declining. Same supply of workers. No government protection for those wages or lost jobs.

Get it?
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Old 09-23-2014, 03:47 PM
 
Location: Central Texas
13,715 posts, read 31,063,711 times
Reputation: 9270
Quote:
Originally Posted by phma View Post
You are right about that. Point well made !!! The right to work states I have lived in don't have an auto industry. A lot could be said on the auto industry alone.
Ford makes many vehicles in Mexico now. If they could make cars in the US in a non-UAW factory they would. But their UAW contracts don't allow that. So they send many of these jobs out of country now.
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Old 09-24-2014, 03:11 PM
 
77,920 posts, read 60,091,609 times
Reputation: 49290
Quote:
Originally Posted by knowledgeiskey View Post
This isn't the point. Most wages in the US are not at equilibrium. If you want cheap prices for products and services, open the borders, but you wouldn't approve of that. Until then, don't complain when people demand to raise the minimum wage as wages in other sectors are inflated to begin with.


What's so hard for you to comprehend?
BWAH HAH HAH.....we already opened the borders lol.

Why do you think there has been so much downward wage pressure on laborers?

90% of the fast food workers in my area are immigrants (legal or otherwise) from south of the border.
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Old 09-24-2014, 03:13 PM
 
7,846 posts, read 6,379,668 times
Reputation: 4025
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
BWAH HAH HAH.....we already opened the borders lol.

Why do you think there has been so much downward wage pressure on laborers?

90% of the fast food workers in my area are immigrants (legal or otherwise) from south of the border.
Because the government is paid to look the other way. They are lobbied to keep wages crappy. McDonalds spends quite a bit of money annually lobbying against minimum wage hikes. They could use that money to pay their workers.. but it is their way of protecting the shareholders.
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