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Old 10-02-2014, 11:06 AM
 
3,570 posts, read 2,506,490 times
Reputation: 2290

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay51 View Post
Your attempt to continue to promote your personal opinion , a lie btw, as a fact is just plain denial. Additionally they were in the chain of power and responsible for the actions of those who work for them, thus making them the responsible ones. It is even worse if they actually had no knowledge of what was going on with their employees.

Since you have no actual facts on the subject and I doubt you are included in the national security meetings, you really have no defense for your personal gods in this case.
The President heads an Executive branch with nearly 1.6 million employees (civilians, not including ~600k postal workers). The DOJ alone has 105,000 employees.

I don't expect Holder to know what each of those 105,000 people are doing. His job is to set high-level policy goals and act as the face of the DOJ. His job is not direct supervision of every employee in every branch office of the bureaucracy.
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Old 10-02-2014, 11:32 AM
 
Location: Long Island
56,972 posts, read 25,901,119 times
Reputation: 15472
Since Holder is gone they need to find a new target, seems like many here will miss him.
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Old 10-02-2014, 11:42 AM
 
46,186 posts, read 26,909,280 times
Reputation: 11078
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
Since Holder is gone they need to find a new target, seems like many here will miss him.

Only people such as you who agree with holder that people should be braniwashed into what is needed....
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Old 10-02-2014, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Alameda, CA
7,605 posts, read 4,826,616 times
Reputation: 1438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay51 View Post
Your attempt to continue to promote your personal opinion , a lie btw, as a fact is just plain denial. Additionally they were in the chain of power and responsible for the actions of those who work for them, thus making them the responsible ones. It is even worse if they actually had no knowledge of what was going on with their employees.

Since you have no actual facts on the subject and I doubt you are included in the national security meetings, you really have no defense for your personal gods in this case.
It is impossible to prove a negative; which is why the prosecution has the burden of proof.

Feel free to present any evidence you are aware of that Holder or Obama had any knowledge of Fast & Furious, particularly they techniques being used, until it was already in operation.

Feel free also to hold Holder and Obama responsible for actions that they knew nothing about.

The facts are that the investigations have yet to find that Holder and Obama were aware of what was occurring with Fast & Furious. You can call it a lie if you want, but that would be like a lot of your other attacks which have no foundation in reality.
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Old 10-02-2014, 02:20 PM
 
Location: The land where cats rule
10,908 posts, read 9,527,017 times
Reputation: 3602
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamSmyth View Post
It is impossible to prove a negative; which is why the prosecution has the burden of proof.

Feel free to present any evidence you are aware of that Holder or Obama had any knowledge of Fast & Furious, particularly they techniques being used, until it was already in operation.

Feel free also to hold Holder and Obama responsible for actions that they knew nothing about.

The facts are that the investigations have yet to find that Holder and Obama were aware of what was occurring with Fast & Furious. You can call it a lie if you want, but that would be like a lot of your other attacks which have no foundation in reality.
Once again, you claim that they had nothing to do with these events based on the claims of those defending themselves. Not exactly a truthful pair who always place the blame on others.

And once again, your group still tries to blame Bush for things that he knew nothing about, but according to you and yours that's alright. Wake up and for once try to think for yourself instead of re-reading the issued talking points. They are just another in a long steam of lies in this administration, like claiming the crippling of AQ or control of the border. Pitiful.

Some just seem to out of hand reject anything that they chose and refuse to be educated.
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Old 10-02-2014, 02:23 PM
 
Location: The land where cats rule
10,908 posts, read 9,527,017 times
Reputation: 3602
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheCityTheBridge View Post
The President heads an Executive branch with nearly 1.6 million employees (civilians, not including ~600k postal workers). The DOJ alone has 105,000 employees.

I don't expect Holder to know what each of those 105,000 people are doing. His job is to set high-level policy goals and act as the face of the DOJ. His job is not direct supervision of every employee in every branch office of the bureaucracy.
But as these "employees" do in fact work for him he is to be held responsible.
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Old 10-02-2014, 04:16 PM
 
3,570 posts, read 2,506,490 times
Reputation: 2290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay51 View Post
But as these "employees" do in fact work for him he is to be held responsible.
Do you hold Tim Cook personally responsible for the work of Apple's retail store employees? He heads an organization that, worldwide, has about 2/3 the number of employees that Holder's organization has, and only about 4.4% the size of Obama's non-postal civilian employees. And when an Apple retail store employee messes up, the chain of authority goes nowhere near Tim Cook. It goes to a shift supervisor, and then a store manager. As I mentioned earlier, a series of ATF and DOJ employees were recommended for discipline and/or resigned or retired in the wake of Fast and the Furious.

Don't ask Tim Cook to step down when an Apple store employee uses a celebrity's phone information to call her. Don't ask Holder to personally oversee 105,000 DoJ employees.

Last edited by TheCityTheBridge; 10-02-2014 at 04:19 PM.. Reason: Better example
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Old 10-02-2014, 04:36 PM
 
Location: Long Island
56,972 posts, read 25,901,119 times
Reputation: 15472
Quote:
Originally Posted by chucksnee View Post
Only people such as you who agree with holder that people should be braniwashed into what is needed....
I don't know seems like many who dislike him will have a void in their lives, look at this thread 26 pages about Holder's resignation. So what's new??
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Old 10-02-2014, 04:55 PM
 
Location: Alameda, CA
7,605 posts, read 4,826,616 times
Reputation: 1438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjay51 View Post
Once again, you claim that they had nothing to do with these events based on the claims of those defending themselves. Not exactly a truthful pair who always place the blame on others.

And once again, your group still tries to blame Bush for things that he knew nothing about, but according to you and yours that's alright. Wake up and for once try to think for yourself instead of re-reading the issued talking points. They are just another in a long steam of lies in this administration, like claiming the crippling of AQ or control of the border. Pitiful.

Some just seem to out of hand reject anything that they chose and refuse to be educated.
Has anyone presented any factual evidence that Holder or Obama revived, ordered or approved the gun-walking tactics used in Fast & Furious? If so I would like to read it. I'm aware that there are a lot of accusations, but how many of them are based on verifiable facts.

Anyone can make accusations. That doesn't mean the accusations are true, as you are clearly proving with your posts. I do my own research. Even when I read a report that supports my position on an issue I want to know on what basis the writer or researcher came to their conclusion.
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Old 10-02-2014, 10:28 PM
 
Location: OCEAN BREEZES AND VIEWS SAN CLEMENTE
19,893 posts, read 18,392,290 times
Reputation: 6465
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamSmyth View Post
Has anyone presented any factual evidence that Holder or Obama revived, ordered or approved the gun-walking tactics used in Fast & Furious? If so I would like to read it. I'm aware that there are a lot of accusations, but how many of them are based on verifiable facts.

Anyone can make accusations. That doesn't mean the accusations are true, as you are clearly proving with your posts. I do my own research. Even when I read a report that supports my position on an issue I want to know on what basis the writer or researcher came to their conclusion.

Your right anyone can make accusations at any given time. And people can lie and be deceitful when they don't want truth and facts to be revealed.

With some people you just can see thru to their lies. And yes there are plenty of times, when accusations are true, but we have failed to find out the truth. A lot of verifiable facts out there, that this administration surely does not know a thing about. But But But looking into the matter.
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