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Old 10-04-2014, 03:06 PM
 
27,307 posts, read 16,218,061 times
Reputation: 12102

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Odo View Post
Yes, you are right-- AGW is a theory. But so is the THEORY of gravity. And the THEORY of evolution. And the THEORY of relativity.

If you only rely on FACT, then you must reject these theories as well, oh learned man of science.

Here's an article about theory that you should read (but won't):

Gravity: It's Only a Theory | NCSE
Its pretty much proven about gravity through hundreds of years of study.
The study of AGW is what 20 years old?

Doesn't compare.

Your argument has no validity.
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Old 10-04-2014, 03:12 PM
 
2,777 posts, read 1,780,917 times
Reputation: 2418
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-310 View Post
Yeah, I screwed up the title.

Read the link. Warmers are desperate to prove that the wild weather is caused by AGW. So they are developing a computer model to crap out results faster to prove their allegations.

Problem is, even with the new method, the results will be the same unless the computers are programmed to get the results desired.

Currently, AGW is not causing the wild weather.

Hence the warmers angst.
I think I get your strategy for winning this argument.

1. Post a link to an article.
2. Ignore the content of the article.
3. Wait for someone else to talk about the content of the article.
4. Realize you should have read the article first, and try to avoid admitting you didn't read it.
5. Make up ridiculous fantasies about things you don't understand.
6. Talk about sinister plot to manipulate people.
7. Repeat the same thing over and over to prove that you are right.
8. Talk about how 'warmers' must feel terrible now that you've exposed them as frauds.

You've devised the perfect strategy for winning an argument without ever leaving the comfort of your own imagination. Well done!
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Old 10-04-2014, 03:15 PM
 
Location: CO
2,172 posts, read 1,453,524 times
Reputation: 972
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-310 View Post
If your argument fails on its merits the fall back position is to blame big oil got it.

Means your message fails completely.
Means your response fails completely - much like this entire thread. No surprises there.

Never blamed big oil - merely provided evidence that big oil sees man-made climate change as a problem and is hoping to address it.

Enjoy another thread-fail. If nothing else, they're consistent.
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Old 10-04-2014, 03:24 PM
 
2,777 posts, read 1,780,917 times
Reputation: 2418
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-310 View Post
Its pretty much proven about gravity through hundreds of years of study.
The study of AGW is what 20 years old?

Doesn't compare.

Your argument has no validity.
My point was that it's a THEORY, not that it's an OLD theory. You said you would only accept facts, and that relying only on THEORY was bad science.

Were you wrong?
(the answer is yes)

Are you the science expert you claim to be, while also making mistakes that a fifth grader would be tested on?
(the answer is no)

And AGW theory is almost 100 years old, and in the same way gravity explains why things fall down and not up, AGW explains why the planet is heating when every other condition suggests it should be cooling.

BBC News - A brief history of climate change
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Old 10-04-2014, 03:26 PM
 
27,307 posts, read 16,218,061 times
Reputation: 12102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Odo View Post
My point was that it's a THEORY, not that it's an OLD theory. You said you would only accept facts, and that relying only on THEORY was bad science.

Were you wrong?
(the answer is yes)

Are you the science expert you claim to be, while also making mistakes that a fifth grader would be tested on?
(the answer is no)

And AGW theory is almost 100 years old, and in the same way gravity explains why things fall down and not up, AGW explains why the planet is heating when every other condition suggests it should be cooling.

BBC News - A brief history of climate change
AGW fits whatever argument you care to interject.

Hundreds of years of study versus less than a hundred. Study of AGW is less than a hundred years old.

And it stopped warming over 18 years ago.
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Old 10-04-2014, 03:27 PM
 
Location: Montreal, Quebec
15,080 posts, read 14,320,820 times
Reputation: 9789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Odo View Post
Yes, you are right-- AGW is a theory. But so is the THEORY of gravity. And the THEORY of evolution. And the THEORY of relativity.

If you only rely on FACT, then you must reject these theories as well, oh learned man of science.

Here's an article about theory that you should read (but won't):

Gravity: It's Only a Theory | NCSE
Well, if it's only a theory, then some people who jump off the roof will fall downwards, and some will soar heavenwards....

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Old 10-04-2014, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
33,532 posts, read 37,132,711 times
Reputation: 13999
Quote:
Originally Posted by T-310 View Post
Its pretty much proven about gravity through hundreds of years of study.
The study of AGW is what 20 years old?

Doesn't compare.

Your argument has no validity.
It is your argument that is lacking.....Proofs exist only in mathematics and logic, not in science. Mathematics and logic are both closed, self-contained systems of propositions, whereas science is empirical and deals with nature as it exists. The primary criterion and standard of evaluation of scientific theory is evidence, not proof.
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Old 10-04-2014, 03:36 PM
 
27,307 posts, read 16,218,061 times
Reputation: 12102
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
It is your argument that is lacking.....Proofs exist only in mathematics and logic, not in science. Mathematics and logic are both closed, self-contained systems of propositions, whereas science is empirical and deals with nature as it exists. The primary criterion and standard of evaluation of scientific theory is evidence, not proof.
And your evidence doesn't add up.
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Old 10-04-2014, 03:46 PM
 
5,913 posts, read 3,184,486 times
Reputation: 4397
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultor View Post
The take-away quote from the article (bold mine):

They are developing a new scientific model that will shrink to as little as three days the time it takes to establish or rule out a link to climate change, in large part by using highly accurate estimates of sea surface temperatures rather than waiting for the actual readings to be published – a process that can often take months.


Using estimates in place of actual data serves no scientific purpose - their aims are purely political.
This was amusing but now it is just a waste of time. Have a good day.
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Old 10-04-2014, 04:22 PM
 
1,824 posts, read 1,371,441 times
Reputation: 1569
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
It is your argument that is lacking.....Proofs exist only in mathematics and logic, not in science. Mathematics and logic are both closed, self-contained systems of propositions, whereas science is empirical and deals with nature as it exists. The primary criterion and standard of evaluation of scientific theory is evidence, not proof.
So science is empirical and deals with nature as it exists? That means that it is complete folly for your side to keep claiming that the "science is settled", the "debate is over" and there is this 97% consensus of scientists all reaching the same conclusions.

Our understanding of nature and of our climate is changing and evolving all of the time. Once we insert DOGMA into the process of attempting to understand such a dynamic system, we handicap ourselves because then we are only really interested in evidence that points to a particular conclusion.

Frankly it is YOUR side of this debate, who seek to define this issue as something as obvious or intractable as 1 + 1 = 2.
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