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The chicken farmer gives the doctor an hour note for an hour of the surgeon's time. The chicken farmer sold an hour of his time to someone who gave him the hour note in return. Now the surgeon can give that hour note to someone he wants an hour from. Works just like money but without the arbitrary leveraged "value" that is without connection to actual investment of time.
My response was directed at No_Recess, who went off on a bartering tangent. With a en exchange medium in hand, we at least dispose of the inherent inefficiency problem with bartering.
An earlier poster brought this up, and I replied. Anyway suppose you spend 10,000 hours in training to get your skill. That is a 10% increase that you have invested versus someone who needs no training at all over the average work life. So you are worth an extra 10% over a minimum wage worker.
No way to compensate for the consequences of risk of failure?
Look at it this way: A ship's captain delivers a flawless year of work, and lives and property worth tens, if not hundreds of millions of man-hours continue to exist. A ship's captain messes up just once during that year, and that life & property is irretrievably lost.
A burger flipper delivers a flawless year of work, and delicious burgers are served. A burger flipper messes up just once during that year, and his employer is out a grill's worth of ground meat.
That makes a flawless man-year of effort as offered by a ship's captain of much higher value than the same man-year of some burger-flipper.
(No, that doesn't mean the burger-flipper is less worth as a human being. He could be doing much more than the captain to bring about a better world. But that's a different story.)
If time is currency, higher efficiency only gains you a benefit if you're doing things for yourself.
Again, I'll immodestly use myself as an example. I need my oil changed and that's 30 minutes work for an oil-changer, plus the oil, so let's say I have to put an hour in the bank. I work for an hour and I resolve 5 network problems, because I'm good. A greenhorn will still be stuck on the first problem after an hour. And yet, he can go get his oil changed for that same hour worked. Why the ever-lovin' do I want to be more efficient? If my time is my compensation, I'd want to be as inefficient as I could get away with, make sure I didn't run out of network problems.
Oh, it's one of those ideas that take a remodeling of the human psyche? I'll pass.
Everyone is doing something and time is always a factor. People will go where they get the service they want, barring other obstacles. Some will care about time more than others. Right now in our current economy people are receiving poor or inefficient service all the time. There are always "poor" attitudes, as well. Hopefully with more opportunities and choices there would be less of this. (You don't think government funded projects or any others suffer from that kind of mentality now? One of seeking, but not finding? )
The whole reason offshoring to 3rd world occurred was due to profit margins. There would hopefully be better access so more people could get training they need to do what they want. Right now many are locked out of participation in the current system due to lack of funds. Everyone has time.
All ideas remodel behavior and thinking. It is happening all the time. Might want to study social engineering and marketing.
No way to compensate for the consequences of risk of failure?
Look at it this way: A ship's captain delivers a flawless year of work, and lives and property worth tens, if not hundreds of millions of man-hours continue to exist. A ship's captain messes up just once during that year, and that life & property is irretrievably lost.
A burger flipper delivers a flawless year of work, and delicious burgers are served. A burger flipper messes up just once during that year, and his employer is out a grill's worth of ground meat.
That makes a flawless man-year of effort as offered by a ship's captain of much higher value than the same man-year of some burger-flipper.
(No, that doesn't mean the burger-flipper is less worth as a human being. He could be doing much more than the captain to bring about a better world. But that's a different story.)
The tangibles (materials) versus the time are being mixed in here. Remedy on the liability side doesn't have to operate exactly the same as other transactions.
The main focus should be on correcting or restoring the situation. There will always be limits on this. In our current situation liability issues are still a problem. There are no guarantees of remedy or restitution, much less it being done in a "balanced" manner as you seem to be discussing.
No way to compensate for the consequences of risk of failure?
Look at it this way: A ship's captain delivers a flawless year of work, and lives and property worth tens, if not hundreds of millions of man-hours continue to exist. A ship's captain messes up just once during that year, and that life & property is irretrievably lost.
A burger flipper delivers a flawless year of work, and delicious burgers are served. A burger flipper messes up just once during that year, and his employer is out a grill's worth of ground meat.
That makes a flawless man-year of effort as offered by a ship's captain of much higher value than the same man-year of some burger-flipper.
(No, that doesn't mean the burger-flipper is less worth as a human being. He could be doing much more than the captain to bring about a better world. But that's a different story.)
Who is risking what? Certain jobs will pose more risk than others if not done well. However, I don't see how that changes the investment of time of the person doing it. We can imagine an infinite number of ways to justify leverage or arbitrary value based on leverage. However, doing so does not fix the fundamental errors and evils of the token money system. What I want to fix is thus:
"The only reason to have a market is so that people can have access to goods and services. When some can have more access to those goods and services than others who have invested the same amount of time, or if you'd prefer their life, a vicious cycle begins. Those who have better access continually garner greater access and share of all goods while those who have less leverage continually lose more and more access to those goods and services. Essentially, the market is transformed from a method of exchanging all goods and services among people, to a continual consolidation of all goods and services to a smaller and smaller elite."
And I also wish to address, rather eliminate, the financier class and those who have a monopoly upon the creation of fiat. These people are nothing but parasites and slavers.
Reason is the capacity for consciously making sense of things, applying logic, for establishing and verifying facts, and changing or justifying practices, institutions, and beliefs based on new or existing information
Exactly! The working class exchange their time for money. The rich invested time and money so their creations and money works for them.
Indeed. Your Money or Your Life by Joe Dominguez and Vicki Robin really changed how I viewed money and time and my relation to both and their relation to me. Not to be cliche but it can be a life changer if you want to learn how money and time intersect.
Who is risking what? Certain jobs will pose more risk than others if not done well. However, I don't see how that changes the investment of time of the person doing it. We can imagine an infinite number of ways to justify leverage or arbitrary value based on leverage. However, doing so does not fix the fundamental errors and evils of the token money system. What I want to fix is thus:
"The only reason to have a market is so that people can have access to goods and services. When some can have more access to those goods and services than others who have invested the same amount of time, or if you'd prefer their life, a vicious cycle begins. Those who have better access continually garner greater access and share of all goods while those who have less leverage continually lose more and more access to those goods and services. Essentially, the market is transformed from a method of exchanging all goods and services among people, to a continual consolidation of all goods and services to a smaller and smaller elite."
And I also wish to address, rather eliminate, the financier class and those who have a monopoly upon the creation of fiat. These people are nothing but parasites and slavers.
Equitable, open systems have many advantages over closed. The internet and open source are good examples.
Open source models offer accessibility and are flexible, efficient, offer redundancy, diversity, scalability, sustainability, transparency, accountability and promote self-sufficiency.
The current financial system is centrally controlled and highly hierarchical. This is the corporate pyramid model.
The idea of risk and liability is important to actual "cost". Separating the returns from risk creates problems, so does excessive abstraction and leverage.
Where has alltheRiskgone?
quote:
A bit like selling the shadow but keeping the object.
...
If you want to refresh your understanding of securitization I wrote a series all about it called Securitization – The Undead Heart of the Shadow Banking System parts 1, 2, and 3.
Originally Posted by petch751 View Post
Exactly! The working class exchange their time for money. The rich invested time and money so their creations and money works for them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreutz
Indeed. Your Money or Your Life by Joe Dominguez and Vicki Robin really changed how I viewed money and time and my relation to both and their relation to me. Not to be cliche but it can be a life changer if you want to learn how money and time intersect.
Yes I read similar writings and putting the concept into action was a life changer. The problem for some people is even if they read it they won't get the concept others may get the concept but be too lazy, others will say it's BS because there is no magic pill, others (who think they are entitled to other peoples money) won't even bother at all then they'll complain you should give more of your time.
Last edited by petch751; 10-07-2014 at 08:41 PM..
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Works just like money but without the arbitrary leveraged "value" that is without connection to actual investment of time.
