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Old 11-11-2014, 09:36 AM
 
4,739 posts, read 4,420,879 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
It's all her fault! Did you read the decision tree?

Why can no one accept that these nurses may have done nothing wrong, there may have been nothing wrong with their equipment, and yet they still got Ebola? Why do people think that everything we know about Ebola NOW is all there is to know about it, that there is no possible circumstance under which following these guidelines to the letter will still not protect you?
The evidence speaks against it.

There have been ~7 cases in the United States. 6 treated without containment failure. Only one hospital (Texas) had containment failure and it resulted in 2 additional cases (total US cases 9).

Nurses have been very public from Texas about issues/concerns (Nurse Union)


Only one hospital in the United States (with 1 of 7 us treated cases) spread the disease to health care workers. All of this was the same strain.

If "nothing was wrong" and they were just working with Magic ebola or something. . i would expect the other hospital treatment centers to have similar issue.

Duncan was not screened for Ebola on 1st admission, even though he noted he had been to a Ebola country - failure
Precautions were not taken when Duncan returned to emergency room - failure 2

New York didn't "Know" the guy had Ebola (Dr) when he arrived. yet the guys history said ( be careful).
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Old 11-11-2014, 09:49 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,376,423 times
Reputation: 35920
No one in the ER, where Duncan presented without anyone using protective equipment, got Ebola. Therefore, it's all the nurses' fault. There's never any serendipity to attack rates or anything like that; it's always the nurses' fault. They gave to themselves, stupid "girls". Nurses get called that a lot too.

The nurses' union is from California. Much as I support labor, they hadn't set foot in that Dallas hospital.
"Dallas nurses working for Texas Presbyterian Hospital are not members of that National Nurses United Union"
Nurses Union Blames Texas Hospital For Not Protecting Workers « CBS Dallas / Fort Worth

The good doctor in NY stated he thought he may have Ebola. Mr. Duncan did not so state, even if he did think so. Duncan was by far the sickest patient treated in the US as well, but then again, no matter. It was the nurses' fault.

In any case, it was the nurses' fault. Someone on the NPR comment board, which is supposedly more erudite than this one, called it "natural selection" and stated "LOL". I'll let you guess what that person said her profession is. It was the nurses' fault. Period. There is no other explanation.

Last edited by Katarina Witt; 11-11-2014 at 11:17 AM..
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Old 11-11-2014, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
39,002 posts, read 51,001,044 times
Reputation: 28191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
It's all her fault! Did you read the decision tree?

Why can no one accept that these nurses may have done nothing wrong, there may have been nothing wrong with their equipment, and yet they still got Ebola? Why do people think that everything we know about Ebola NOW is all there is to know about it, that there is no possible circumstance under which following these guidelines to the letter will still not protect you?

I'm no apologist for hospital administrators, Heaven knows, but maybe it wasn't their fault, either.

I have been in health care a long time. I've had to unlearn a lot. Maybe you will too, some day.

As for these other hospitals, heck, they all knew their patients had Ebola prior to admission. I was in Omaha when the cameraman was admitted. Now he's another one who doesn't know how he could have gotten Ebola, and the method postulated (cleaning a car) sounds far-fetched per guidelines.

"Speaking at Monday’s news conference, Dr. Ali Khan, dean of the college of public health at the University of Nebraska Medical Center, said the situation in Omaha is far different than in Dallas, where a hospital has come under criticism when a man suffering from Ebola-like symptoms was initially sent home by a hospital before being admitted three days later with worsened symptoms. “It’s a controlled situation where we know what the person has,” Dr. Khan said."
U.S. Journalist With Ebola Arrives in Nebraska for Treatment - WSJ

Watch this: American cameraman infected with Ebola arrives at Nebraska hospital | Video | wkyc.com
Everyone involved, all already suited up, including the ambulance driver.

But, when all is said and done, it's the nurses' fault.
I know you are attempting to be sarcastic, but the reality is that no one is blaming the nurses who got Ebola. It was an unfortunate result of the poor training and equipment provided to them by their employer. We all get that. So why do you persist? Give it up, already!
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Old 11-11-2014, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,376,423 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa View Post
I know you are attempting to be sarcastic, but the reality is that no one is blaming the nurses who got Ebola. It was an unfortunate result of the poor training and equipment provided to them by their employer. We all get that. So why do you persist? Give it up, already!
Like h*ll they're not! Have you read the preceeding few posts? "No issue, except for poorly educated healthcare workers" (#3515) my posterior!

I didn't bring it up!
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Old 11-11-2014, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert
39,002 posts, read 51,001,044 times
Reputation: 28191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Like h*ll they're not! Have you read the preceeding few posts? "No issue, except for poorly educated healthcare workers" (#3515) my posterior!

I didn't bring it up!
You are beating (the wrong) dead horse. Poorly educated or poorly trained or poorly equipped, none of it is the healthcare workers' fault. It is all on their employer who failed to train them and/or failed to have the necessary equipment. The nurses union spelled out the problem with no uncertainty. This has always been about Dallas Presby and the health authorities in Texas and never about the nurses. The nurses were victims of mismanagement and incompetence by the higher ups who cared more about the bottom line than their well-being. We all know that.
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Old 11-11-2014, 11:20 AM
 
13,281 posts, read 7,823,936 times
Reputation: 2141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyperthetic View Post
"Typically . . .

There just may be other places of comfort for the ebola virus to bide than just a man's spawn sack.

Should surviving male ebola victims be masturbating frequently, with a condom on?
"Of all the tissues and organs examined, the testicles get the prize for producing the most unique proteins, including several involved in meiosis. “What’s going on in the testes is unique, as sperm must survive with half the chromosomes and outside the human body,”

http://www.the-scientist.com//?artic...uman-Proteome/

"However, the Ebola virus can survive in semen for months after a man recovers from the infection, posing an ongoing threat to sexual partners long after he is well. At a time when a man's bloodstream is swimming with antibodies, and he is immune to the disease, he still may be able to infect others."

"The World Health Organization made a point of this on Monday when it noted that "in a convalescent male, the virus can persist in semen for at least 70 days; one study suggests persistence for more than 90 days."

Sex in a time of Ebola - The Washington Post

What's going on down there?

Recombinant DNA?

Recombinant RNA?

Last edited by Hyperthetic; 11-11-2014 at 12:18 PM..
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Old 11-11-2014, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,376,423 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa View Post
You are beating (the wrong) dead horse. Poorly educated or poorly trained or poorly equipped, none of it is the healthcare workers' fault. It is all on their employer who failed to train them and/or failed to have the necessary equipment. The nurses union spelled out the problem with no uncertainty. This has always been about Dallas Presby and the health authorities in Texas and never about the nurses. The nurses were victims of mismanagement and incompetence by the higher ups who cared more about the bottom line than their well-being. We all know that.
No we don't "all know that". I see you didn't read the link I posted from the Boston Globe, stating in Nina Pham's own words, how the nurses were attired when they cared for Duncan. The union never set foot in the Dallas Hospital, AFAIK. That union does not represent those nurses, either. If they'd been representing them, they should have asked for appropriate attire before care was given! I don't like treating those nurses like poor ignorant victims any more than I like portraying them as just dumb.
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Old 11-11-2014, 11:23 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,772,490 times
Reputation: 14345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Like h*ll they're not! Have you read the preceeding few posts? "No issue, except for poorly educated healthcare workers" (#3515) my posterior!

I didn't bring it up!
If a bunch of students fail a test, and a parent says the students weren't properly prepared for the test, does that mean that the parent is blaming the students?
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Old 11-11-2014, 11:25 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,376,423 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
If a bunch of students fail a test, and a parent says the students weren't properly prepared for the test, does that mean that the parent is blaming the students?
So you're in the group of "poor little victim nurses; why those ignorant cows (a term often used to describe nurses), they didn't know any better"?

This is not the education forum, we're not talking about failing a test.
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Old 11-11-2014, 11:59 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,772,490 times
Reputation: 14345
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
So you're in the group of "poor little victim nurses; why those ignorant cows (a term often used to describe nurses), they didn't know any better"?

This is not the education forum, we're not talking about failing a test.
No, and I don't want to argue with you, because I like you too damn much.

I'm in the group that says that the protocols DO work. The CDC dropped the ball, because they are working with medical centers like Emory, and they evidently expected every hospital, every nurse, every healthcare worker, to be trained and equipped like Emory.

Texas Presbyterian was the first "regular" hospital to have to deal with Ebola. And they didn't have the training or equipment needed. It wasn't the nurses' fault. It wasn't the hospital's fault. They simply weren't prepared for this particular virus.

And I think that they did an exemplary job. I think Texas did a great job. Mistakes were made. The most glaring being the one where they sent the patient home initially. I still question the training that their epidemiological staff have, because it concerns me that after the possibility of Ebola was raised, that the patient wasn't immediately isolated. But they'd never dealt with Ebola before. And when that became a distinct possibility, they were scrambling. It wasn't something they expected. It wasn't something they had planned for.

And they did everything possible to try to save their patient. They did isolate him. The staff was incredibly professional, considering that they knew there were potential risks of contagion from a deadly disease. The fact that so many of the staff voluntarily quarantined themselves, speaks volumes about not just their professionalism, but also about their commitment.

And the Texas authorities did a great job at contact tracing, at alerting the public. They quarantined the people at highest risk. The fact that it was two nurses who ended up being infected doesn't mean that the nurses didn't do their job correctly, or that the hospital failed. But I think it does mean that at some point the CDC protocols were violated. The nurses may have followed every step in the guidelines given them. But sometimes instructions aren't complete. The people writing the instructions make assumptions about the training and experience of the people that they are writing the instructions for, and those assumptions lead to something key being left out.
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