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Old 10-27-2014, 03:45 PM
 
34,278 posts, read 19,358,607 times
Reputation: 17261

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The mircea challenge. Ahh why not, he goes on about this 82 trillion in wealth argument, no idea what he wants to prove, but im tired of it.

So Credit Suisse indicates the total wealth is 83.7 trillion in the United states as per the 20144 global wealth report
http://s3.documentcloud.org/document...ort-2014-1.pdf

So its 83.7 trillion, not 82 trillion. now whats your point mircea?
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Old 10-27-2014, 03:46 PM
 
34,278 posts, read 19,358,607 times
Reputation: 17261
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
You clearly need to stop just making things up and actually educate yourself..

Can the Rich Pay Off our National Debt? | Karen's Perspective
Again a post from 2011, deep in the recession. you're making my point here you know? Its a perfectly valid statement.....then

I didnt pull the 1,5 trillion in income for the top 1% out of my hat, I looked it up. And we both agree the current deficit is less then that I presume?

ps-no im not listening to a 10 minute video from 2011 about this when its a valid statement then.
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Old 10-27-2014, 03:48 PM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,081,664 times
Reputation: 9383
Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
Again a post from 2011, deep in the recession. you're making my point here you know? Its a perfectly valid statement.....then

I didnt pull the 1,5 trillion in income for the top 1% out of my hat, I looked it up. And we both agree the current deficit is less then that I presume?

ps-no im not listening to a 10 minute video from 2011 about this when its a valid statement then.
You are counting the tax they already pay and then calculating it as payment again, which means you are counting the same money TWICE...

Of course you arent going to listen to a video, you've got to much crap to just make up...
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Old 10-27-2014, 03:52 PM
 
27,307 posts, read 16,212,564 times
Reputation: 12102
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
The wealthy have sucked up American resources like no other time in history. Why does the right-wing want more tax cuts for the wealthy at the expense of others and well being of our country?

How the Ultra-Rich .01% Have Sucked Up Even More of America's Wealth Than You Think
Why are we constantly inundated with that misleading tired old liberal canard?
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Old 10-27-2014, 03:52 PM
 
34,278 posts, read 19,358,607 times
Reputation: 17261
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
You are counting the tax they already pay and then calculating it as payment again, which means you are counting the same money TWICE...

Of course you arent going to listen to a video, you've got to much crap to just make up...
1.5 trillion in income. 1 trillion in deficits (arguably less). I figured 22% of that for their current effective tax rate.

So no, im not making stuff up, I did in fact take that into account and I am not double counting it.

Again, a perfectly valid sstatement in 2011, thats not valid in 2014.

AND im using the AGI number, the actual income is much much higher.
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Old 10-27-2014, 03:56 PM
 
27,307 posts, read 16,212,564 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
Not true for the wealthy! They literally got rich off the labor of the rest of us.
Stop trying to get something for nothing.

It won't work.
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Old 10-27-2014, 04:00 PM
 
69,368 posts, read 64,081,664 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greywar View Post
1.5 trillion in income. 1 trillion in deficits (arguably less). I figured 22% of that for their current effective tax rate.

So no, im not making stuff up, I did in fact take that into account and I am not double counting it.

Again, a perfectly valid sstatement in 2011, thats not valid in 2014.

AND im using the AGI number, the actual income is much much higher.
But you are counting the money they paid already in taxes and then recounting it as being given to the federal government as newly paid money..

I dont have a problem with them taking home 10% of the GDP.. Thats GROSS, not NET..
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Old 10-27-2014, 04:20 PM
 
34,278 posts, read 19,358,607 times
Reputation: 17261
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest View Post
But you are counting the money they paid already in taxes and then recounting it as being given to the federal government as newly paid money..

I dont have a problem with them taking home 10% of the GDP.. Thats GROSS, not NET..
LOL, OK how about 20%? Still OK?

Because thats their share. 20%, not 10. And I used their AGI values, not their income values in my discussion.
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Old 10-27-2014, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,442,711 times
Reputation: 27720
Quote:
Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
Not true for the wealthy! They literally got rich off the labor of the rest of us.
No they didn't. They invested their money. What has the stock market done since 2009 ?
Poor people have no money to invest. Poor people have little to no assets.

And if you don't like being a wage slave then go off and start your own business.
This is America after all.
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Old 10-27-2014, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Flippin AR
5,513 posts, read 5,238,544 times
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I couldn't agree more that the wealthy do not need any more tax breaks. But the truly wealthy don't have to work for a living, so they avoid Big Government's primary taxing vehicles (income and payroll taxes). It is the lowly working class that gets hurt more every time someone says "tax the rich!"

Here is the breakdown of federal revenues for 2013: (Policy Basics: Where Do Federal Tax Revenues Come From? — Center on Budget and Policy Priorities)

Income tax: 47%
Payroll taxes (SS and Medicare): 34%
Corporate income tax: 10%
Excise, estate and other taxes: 9%

Big Government get over 80% of its money from the paychecks of working people. When Big Government hears "tax the rich," they happily increase taxes AGAIN on those in the working class who have above-average incomes. These people (like my family) already pay so much in taxes that they will increasingly be pushed to quit the rat race entirely.

Just because a family has an above-average income, it doesn't make them wealthy. These are typically families in their peak income earning years, desperately trying to save for retirement (or the time when health problems will prevent them putting in 80 hours a week at the office). If they are paid decent salaries, they live in an area with VERY high cost of living (southeast NH, in my case).

Their children and their elders typically need continuing subsidies to offset the ever-increasing cost of living. Their employers are doubtless shifting more and more of the astronomical cost of medical care, and insurance, to them (a double-hit, since these costs are then paid with after-tax income). Wages and benefits continue to be eroded as more and more workers need jobs, and more and more jobs are sent overseas. Even the most valuable employee is nothing but a waste of money to the Robber Baron CEOs that have reduced capitalism to sociopathic games played by evil geniuses.

Thanks to Washington policies, even the high rate of savings practiced by the most disciplined has been sabotaged. The power of compounding interest only benefits the business of mortgages and loans; for well over a decade the average citizen got virtually NO interest even on significant savings. Even worse, the buying power of whatever they save is continually eaten away Washington's ongoing currency devaluation--to the point that retirement actually gets farther away with each extra year of endless work. And while the 401k is far better than nothing, they have no safe alternative to a chaotic stock market that will inevitably decimate their 401K accounts at some time in the future.

When it gets to the point that we are driving 13-year old beater cars to work every day, while sending the equivalent of a luxury SUV to Washington every year in income taxes alone, we are far past the point of ever being able to patch up the current tax system. If you want to tax the rich, you need a tax system that targets the truly wealthy--not the most responsible of the working class, who are trying to save enough to take care of themselves in retirement.
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