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Old 11-03-2014, 06:00 PM
 
Location: Maine
2,212 posts, read 1,354,318 times
Reputation: 3958

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ca_north View Post
Yes, there's plenty of evidence for global warming and it's a big deal, long term, but I think the fundamental environmental problem is economic growthism aka human expansion.

We have bought into a blind mandate of endlessly rising resource consumption, fueled by population growth and the need to pay off unsustainable debt by constantly creating jobs. The money system is destroying the physical world by pretending the latter has the capacity to support billions more people. The evidence shows we've already overused Earth's physical resources, based on the illusion of easy energy, which is mainly burned-up fossil fuel capital, not energy income.

Efforts to replace the vast scale of fossil fuels are already wrecking nature more than environmentalists want to admit. Man's physical footprint on nature keeps increasing. Wind turbines and solar thermal plants are among the worst culprits, slated to grow along with the mindless expansion of the economy. The problem is limited physical space to install giant structures without trashing wild and scenic areas, killing birds and generally wrecking the aesthetic quality of life.

This is a warning for "green" technophiles who think they're "saving the planet" with massive land-grabs. Just because a power source doesn't burn oil or coal (after construction) doesn't make it benign. There's also the problem of electricity never being able to replace portable, energy-dense liquid fuels. We won't be able to power trains or semi-trucks with batteries in the foreseeable future.

Here's an article that sums it up better than most.

Confessions of a Recovering Environmentalist (commentary on future energy sources)

...To do this will require the large-scale harvesting of the planet’s ambient energy: sunlight, wind, water power. This means that vast new conglomerations of human industry are going to appear in places where this energy is most abundant. Unfortunately, these places coincide with some of the world’s wildest, most beautiful, and most untouched landscapes. The sort of places that environmentalism came into being to protect.

And so the deserts, perhaps the landscape always most resistant to permanent human conquest, are to be colonized by vast “solar arrays,” glass and steel and aluminum, the size of small countries. The mountains and moors, the wild uplands, are to be staked out like vampires in the sun, their chests pierced with rows of five-hundred-foot wind turbines and associated access roads, masts, pylons, and wires. The open oceans, already swimming in our plastic refuse and emptying of marine life, will be home to enormous offshore turbine ranges and hundreds of wave machines strung around the coastlines like Victorian necklaces. The rivers are to see their estuaries severed and silted by industrial barrages. The croplands and even the rainforests, the richest habitats on this terrestrial Earth, are already highly profitable sites for biofuel plantations designed to provide guilt-free car fuel to the motion-hungry masses of Europe and America.

What this adds up to should be clear enough, yet many people who should know better choose not to see it. This is business-as-usual: the expansive, colonizing, progressive human narrative, shorn only of the carbon. It is the latest phase of our careless, self-absorbed, ambition-addled destruction of the wild, the unpolluted, and the nonhuman. It is the mass destruction of the world’s remaining wild places in order to feed the human economy. And without any sense of irony, people are calling this “environmentalism.”...
one good way to help save the planet is if you and the other members of the AGW religion stop breeding.


bill
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Old 11-03-2014, 06:22 PM
 
Location: Oceania
8,632 posts, read 5,242,649 times
Reputation: 8318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated View Post
That's your own problem, not the rest of ours.

The rest of the world won't let your denial take us down with you.



Stop the madness!

What happened to earth millions and millions of years before puny humans were onboard? Ice ages and thaws in which huge glaciers carved the features of many lands of the Northern hemisphere.

If any think man can do anything to permanently alter the planet they are small minded.
If you are on a 2 acre deserted island, could you conceivably ruin it for habitation? No, some storm would blow over and change the face of the island.
The same holds true with any structures erected by man during our brief gig here; they will be wiped clean eventually.

Humans will eliminate ourselves in the next millenium so there is nothing to worry about. Earth will shrug off any remnant of us and soldier on once again. It matters not how many nuclear weapons explode or firearms are fired, we will be gone and it's that simple.
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Old 11-03-2014, 06:49 PM
 
Location: Oceania
8,632 posts, read 5,242,649 times
Reputation: 8318
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca_north View Post
Yes, there's plenty of evidence for global warming and it's a big deal, long term, but I think the fundamental environmental problem is economic growthism aka human expansion.

We have bought into a blind mandate of endlessly rising resource consumption, fueled by population growth and the need to pay off unsustainable debt by constantly creating jobs. The money system is destroying the physical world by pretending the latter has the capacity to support billions more people. The evidence shows we've already overused Earth's physical resources, based on the illusion of easy energy, which is mainly burned-up fossil fuel capital, not energy income.

Efforts to replace the vast scale of fossil fuels are already wrecking nature more than environmentalists want to admit. Man's physical footprint on nature keeps increasing. Wind turbines and solar thermal plants are among the worst culprits, slated to grow along with the mindless expansion of the economy. The problem is limited physical space to install giant structures without trashing wild and scenic areas, killing birds and generally wrecking the aesthetic quality of life.

This is a warning for "green" technophiles who think they're "saving the planet" with massive land-grabs. Just because a power source doesn't burn oil or coal (after construction) doesn't make it benign. There's also the problem of electricity never being able to replace portable, energy-dense liquid fuels. We won't be able to power trains or semi-trucks with batteries in the foreseeable future.

Here's an article that sums it up better than most.

Confessions of a Recovering Environmentalist (commentary on future energy sources)

...To do this will require the large-scale harvesting of the planet’s ambient energy: sunlight, wind, water power. This means that vast new conglomerations of human industry are going to appear in places where this energy is most abundant. Unfortunately, these places coincide with some of the world’s wildest, most beautiful, and most untouched landscapes. The sort of places that environmentalism came into being to protect.

And so the deserts, perhaps the landscape always most resistant to permanent human conquest, are to be colonized by vast “solar arrays,” glass and steel and aluminum, the size of small countries. The mountains and moors, the wild uplands, are to be staked out like vampires in the sun, their chests pierced with rows of five-hundred-foot wind turbines and associated access roads, masts, pylons, and wires. The open oceans, already swimming in our plastic refuse and emptying of marine life, will be home to enormous offshore turbine ranges and hundreds of wave machines strung around the coastlines like Victorian necklaces. The rivers are to see their estuaries severed and silted by industrial barrages. The croplands and even the rainforests, the richest habitats on this terrestrial Earth, are already highly profitable sites for biofuel plantations designed to provide guilt-free car fuel to the motion-hungry masses of Europe and America.

What this adds up to should be clear enough, yet many people who should know better choose not to see it. This is business-as-usual: the expansive, colonizing, progressive human narrative, shorn only of the carbon. It is the latest phase of our careless, self-absorbed, ambition-addled destruction of the wild, the unpolluted, and the nonhuman. It is the mass destruction of the world’s remaining wild places in order to feed the human economy. And without any sense of irony, people are calling this “environmentalism.”...



This should accompany your thread...

UN Agenda 21 Maps | UN Agenda 21
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Old 11-04-2014, 04:42 AM
 
16,546 posts, read 14,781,857 times
Reputation: 8620
I've said before to stop the global warmers from hijacking real environmental causes and making everything about politics.
Clean air, clean water, protecting the environment, and stopping the destruction of wild lands has been forgotten to pursue the global warming agenda designed to make a select few people very rich at the expense of the rest of us.
Unchecked population growth in the southwest should be addressed as it impacts limited water supplies and also impacts highly sensitive areas needed for wild life. No, that's been ignored in favor of pursuing unfounded claims about global warming.
Everybody can benefit from protecting green space and natural areas and maintaining clean waterways for fishing and hunting. Conservatives more so than liberals given regional demographics and lifestyle pursuits.
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