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There was never any proposal to abolish insurance. The idea was to have individual health savings accounts to cover deductibles and then allow peple to have catastrophic insurance policies as the balance grew thereby reducing premiums..
What about people with pre-existing conditions? How about insurance when you are unemployed or between jobs? How do you pay the monthly premium for a "catastrophic plan" when you make $10.00/hr.? A HSA is a good thing, but it doesn't help with any of those situations.
And having once had a catastrophic plan between jobs I can tell you that it covered close to nothing and had a $10,000 deductible. Better than nothing, but it would have been rough to have encountered anything beyond an extreme emergency.
So sick of the name calling by both parties. Keeping the voters from both sides battling over who is right or wrong doesn't solve a thing & its plain childish.
I would pretty much agree with this. I despise all politicians as they HAVE to lie to get anywhere. The system is broken.
I'm not so much FOR what Republicans say and do as I am COMPLETELY AGAINST nearly everything liberals say, do, want, stand for and ARE.
Liberalism must be stopped. Unfortunately, they've somehow convinced, good hard working "old school" democrats that they are now also liberals and they should support the new democrat party. Wake up
That really is one point that sticks in my craw. It was true before ACA, and it is true after. ACA didn't cause this, but it did fail to address it. He should have said that ACA will not cause you to lose your plan. As far as the ACA is concerned, the only way you would lose your plan is if it was sub-par. (Covers less than 60% of cost). People losing their plan was an act of greed on the insurers, trying to expose loopholes that the law failed to address. It's not really a lie. (A lie is "mission accomplished". A lie is "we have proof of WMD's, just trust us".)
Bull crap. "Sub-Par?" "Greed of the insurer's"?
You have zero Idea what you are talking about. I work in the industry and People lost BETTER plans than they have now and it wasn't about "greed" by insurers. Totally false.
and, regarding your WMD claim? Debunked a long time ago. The Democrats were fully on board.....until they weren't......Meaning, until it wasn't politically beneficial to be. Democrats, WMD's & The Iraq War - YouTube
I have a newsflash for you - nobody cares about Romneycare, except the people in Massachusetts and the leftists that try to use it to defend the atrocity known as Obamacare. It is a STATE law, and STATES can do pretty much whatever they please. The issue with Obamacare was FEDERAL overreach. If you're not capable of understanding the difference, which I suspect you're not or I wouldn't be writing this reply, then I suggest you read up on the topic. You should start with The Constitution of the United States, and pay particularly close attention to the 10th Amendment.
Hey, watch it with these lefties...they don't do well with truth, law and facts which oppose their dim mindsets.
Know what really riles up most of my friends and I? His outright delight in telling the conference that the designers of Obamacare fooled and lied to the American people. I knew it at the time, or at least I strongly suspected that they were lying. Yet, so many Lib airheads (yeah, stupid I guess you could say) bought it hook, line and sinker. In fact, they belittled anyone who didn't buy into the Obama propaganda about healthcare.
At the time Obama was trying to sell it to us, I wondered "hmmm, just how can he promise every family will save $2500 a year on health care AND be able to keep their own doctors" etc. Anyone with half a brain could see that there was NO way we could suddenly include millions of probably primarily unhealthy uninsured and expect it would not only be affordable, it would be CHEAPER!!!
The other thing that just fries my chicken is that this disgraceful man, Johnathan Gruber, was paid at least a half million dollars for his "expertise" (aka deceipt). He should be tried and punished.
You don't appear to be addressing the specific points of pooling the individual market, how that pooling reduces the significance of individual health status risk adjustment, and how state high risk pools and cost-sharing were ultimately a patchwork quilt of pooling risk and passing it on to others in a less efficient way.
So I assume that we're on to the point of the conversation where you run from one generality to another, abandoning previous points of discussion, instead of discussing things logically.
I'm not really an Obamacare defender, so if I discuss a particular point of fact, and you respond with "Oh yeah, well obamacare is bad rabble rabble" it's not really something I can participate in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent
Why not? It was less expensive for more people.
Is there a single year you can remember when that wasn't the case? The question before us appears to be why is it happening.
Why do premium adjustment characteristics trend along state lines? Why is there geographic variation at all? Why does a market go up one year and down the next, when the market next to it does the opposite? What happens when an insurer enters a market? What happens when they leave? If a major hospital system acquires an independent hospital, what impact does that have regarding negotiating reimbursement rates than subsequently impact insurance premiums? Are premiums trending with inflation? Are they trending with medical CPI? Is medical CPI trending with inflation?
Why is the benchmark silver plan premium less in 2015 than it was in 2014 in the 23 largest markets in each state? Why are another 18 markets or so below the medical care CPI?
Price variations, and changes to plan benefits, are affected by a lot of factors. I think your vague overture about individual health status risk adjustment is ultimately a wash in the big picture. The impact it may have on individual rates is more than made up by the added stability of shared risk.
A LOT of former Obama supporters are NOT happy about getting screwed by Obamacare.
As is evidenced by this subforum, opinion and reality don't necessarily trend together. There is no doubt a lot of confusion about ACA. I rarely find people that are credibly knowledgeable about the whole thing. I only specialize in parts of it on the provider reimbursement side of the law, and have a walking knowledge of the rest.
I think that media coverage, and subsequently public discussion, of ACA has focused on entertaining anecdotes instead of the immensely complex interactions of the implementation with previous law and market forces.
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent
Should have guessed by the KStreetQB username. Gruber, is that you?
Gruber is an economist at a University. I work for hospitals, clinical labs, medical device companies and healthcare contractors to navigate healthcare policy issues. I'm not sure that the line can be blurred enough to equate us.
I realize that this is a disadvantage for me when ranting on the internet, however I find it helps when actually addressing the realities of our healthcare system.
Know what really riles up most of my friends and I? His outright delight in telling the conference that the designers of Obamacare fooled and lied to the American people. I knew it at the time, or at least I strongly suspected that they were lying. Yet, so many Lib airheads (yeah, stupid I guess you could say) bought it hook, line and sinker. In fact, they belittled anyone who didn't buy into the Obama propaganda about healthcare.
At the time Obama was trying to sell it to us, I wondered "hmmm, just how can he promise every family will save $2500 a year on health care AND be able to keep their own doctors" etc. Anyone with half a brain could see that there was NO way we could suddenly include millions of probably primarily unhealthy uninsured and expect it would not only be affordable, it would be CHEAPER!!!
The other thing that just fries my chicken is that this disgraceful man, Johnathan Gruber, was paid at least a half million dollars for his "expertise" (aka deceipt). He should be tried and punished.
Liberals need to lie, they simply cannot be up front and honest about their agendas or they'd never get elected.
If Obama had said in 2008 that his health care plan would take away the freedom of people to choose their own health care plans, and that the federal government would design four versions of health care insurance plans, and punish anyone who dared to choose something else, even if they, their employer, their doctor and insurance provider all agreed to, and loved the plan. If Obama had said he would tax their top heath care plans at a 40% rate, then Obama never would have been elected. So he had to mislead, deceive, lie, and lie often.
What about people with pre-existing conditions? How about insurance when you are unemployed or between jobs? How do you pay the monthly premium for a "catastrophic plan" when you make $10.00/hr.? A HSA is a good thing, but it doesn't help with any of those situations.
And having once had a catastrophic plan between jobs I can tell you that it covered close to nothing and had a $10,000 deductible. Better than nothing, but it would have been rough to have encountered anything beyond an extreme emergency.
ACA is pretty dam close to catastrophic for most people. Things like $6K deductibles and $300 premiums for example
Before ACA my premiums were more than $700.00.This guy Gruber said it was necessary to fool the voters to get ACA passed. We never voted on that.
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Gruber, is that you? 
