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Old 11-14-2014, 01:43 PM
eok eok started this thread
 
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What does it mean when the Declaration of Independence says "all men are created equal" and people talk about equal rights and a level playing field for everyone?

Does it mean everyone gets equal protection of the law and nobody can buy extra justice for themselves? Obviously that's not what it means in present practice, because people can buy politicians by donating money to them and lobbying them. And people can buy extra justice by hiring more skillful lawyers who charge more per hour. And people more savvy in dealing with lawyers can get extra justice by choosing the best lawyers, which other people might not know how to choose. Implying justice goes not to everyone equally, but to those most skilled at grabbing it for themselves.

It's fair that morons earn less money than geniuses, but it's not fair that morons get worse justice, such as more severe sentences for the same crimes.

I think things need to change to the point where we really do have a level playing field, and nobody can buy their way around it. But what do we mean by a playing field? The way I see it, the playing field is the infrastructure we get from government, courts, lawyers, laws, etc. So when we have less skillful lawyers try to get justice for some people, and more skillful lawyers try to get justice for other people, then the playing field itself is being manipulated, because those lawyers are part of the playing field, and some players are getting better parts of the playing field than other players.

If we see capitalism as a game, where everyone has equal rights, equal rules of the game, on a level playing field, and some can get rich while others get poor, as results of the game, then that could be construed to be fair because winners deserve more than losers. But if people can buy their own rules of the game, buy parts of the playing field, pay to have the playing field manipulated in their favor, then that isn't real capitalism. That's basically the law of the jungle, where the playing field consists of whatever you can grab and manipulate, and there are no rules preventing any unfair advantages.

Therefore I propose that the main purpose of government should be to provide a level playing field for everyone, and let people win or lose, while keeping the rules fair and preventing cheating. But that would mean rich people would not be allowed to hire better lawyers than poor people. That would be a shocking violation of what we presently consider fair. I want society to have a level playing field, but don't know how to accomplish it fairly, without resorting to anything draconian, communist, or anything like that. But how? Does anyone have any ideas how it might work, and be fair to everyone?
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Old 11-14-2014, 01:58 PM
 
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While I understand your argument for fairness and a "level" playing field, that can only be accomplished by taking from one person to give to another. You are automaticaly setting up an unfair situation. And even if government could do this to society at large, eventually you would still see some people do well with their slice of the pie while others would lose everything. People themselves are not equal. And the people who are better at looking ahead, scheming, whatever you choose to call it get to manipulate the game of life more than others.
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Old 11-14-2014, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Maryland
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Doesn't mean we have to end up that way.
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Old 11-14-2014, 02:06 PM
 
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Everyone has the same inherent worth as a human and should have the same set of laws. It does not promise equal outcomes or promise that life is "fair." People used to learn as small children that "life is not fair." That lesson seems to have been lost.
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Old 11-14-2014, 02:06 PM
 
Location: MS
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Quote:
But that would mean rich people would not be allowed to hire better lawyers than poor people.
That's a service. If you want to keep it fair then they should have to go to the same doctor as Joe Schmoe as well.

When that happens, what incentive do doctors as lawyers have to be better than their counterparts?

What about engineers and architects? Should the owner of the One World Trade Center be forced to go to the same guy that designed my house?
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Old 11-14-2014, 02:17 PM
 
Location: NE Ohio
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Take a Constitution course. it will answer your question. You can take a free online course offered by Hillsdale College.
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Old 11-14-2014, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Billings, MT
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There is one word in that phrase that is of the utmost importance: "all men are CREATED equal".
That is to say, we all come into this world wet, naked, and crying.
What happens after that is up to our own innate intelligence, how our parents raise us, and, ultimately, it is up to US how well we succeed or do not succeed.
The world owes us NOTHING. Fairness and security are illusions. Once (if) we achieve adulthood, it is all up to US, we can not blame anybody else for OUR failures.
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Old 11-14-2014, 03:00 PM
eok eok started this thread
 
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The issue is not whether it would be fair. The issue is how to make it fair.
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Old 11-14-2014, 03:04 PM
eok eok started this thread
 
6,684 posts, read 4,235,363 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redraven View Post
There is one word in that phrase that is of the utmost importance: "all men are CREATED equal".
That is to say, we all come into this world wet, naked, and crying.
What happens after that is up to our own innate intelligence, how our parents raise us, and, ultimately, it is up to US how well we succeed or do not succeed.
The world owes us NOTHING. Fairness and security are illusions. Once (if) we achieve adulthood, it is all up to US, we can not blame anybody else for OUR failures.
So you don't see any need for a level playing field, because slanting the playing field is part of the game? The law of the jungle prevails, and the animal with the sharpest teeth wins? Then what is government for?
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Old 11-14-2014, 03:05 PM
 
3,216 posts, read 2,227,517 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eok View Post
The issue is not whether it would be fair. The issue is how to make it fair.
But that is my point. If you could somehow make everything fair and "level" after one or two generations some would be far better off financially due to inate abilities. The government can't regulate that.
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