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Old 11-16-2014, 01:07 PM
 
5,472 posts, read 3,222,624 times
Reputation: 3935

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Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Now think about this Emma Lazarus poem inscribed on the Statue of Liberty and consider this:

"You can have open borders or you can have a welfare state. You cannot have both." Milton Friedman

I think Friedman is correct. You cannot have both an all encompassing welfare state and liberal immigration policies without harming current citizens. The demographics of the US where two major demographic groups, Hispanics and blacks, strongly trail the majority group in wealth and income create huge stresses on welfare systems. Is there a great difference in income between the average Walloon versus the average Fleming?

Actually, whites utilize benefits at a rate of 4:1 and in some areas it averages 7:1 whites for every one black or Hispanic that gets benefits.
but you won't see this highly publicized, but that is the reality spectrum.
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Old 11-16-2014, 01:07 PM
 
12,997 posts, read 13,638,147 times
Reputation: 11191
Quote:
Originally Posted by whogo View Post
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

Now think about this Emma Lazarus poem inscribed on the Statue of Liberty and consider this:

"You can have open borders or you can have a welfare state. You cannot have both." Milton Friedman

I think Friedman is correct. You cannot have both an all encompassing welfare state and liberal immigration policies without harming current citizens. The demographics of the US where two major demographic groups, Hispanics and blacks, strongly trail the majority group in wealth and income create huge stresses on welfare systems. Is there a great difference in income between the average Walloon versus the average Fleming?
Oh yeah, there's actually a huge difference -- Flanders is much wealthier than Wallonia at the moment. However historically, Wallonia has been much wealthier than Flanders. It's a huge point of contention between the communities actually. There is some (somewhat serious) talk about the country splitting. That's kind of outside the scope of this thread though.
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Old 11-16-2014, 01:09 PM
 
Location: southern california
61,288 posts, read 87,384,526 times
Reputation: 55562
that is strange it is the GOP this is stubbornly clinging to concept of manners and etiquette and values which is what makes europe beautiful. but before you white wash europe i would take look at what immigration (legal or illegal) has done to europe. i was in paris last week btw and a former resident.
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Old 11-16-2014, 01:26 PM
 
Location: Flyover Country
26,212 posts, read 19,509,699 times
Reputation: 21679
Thanks for helping to prove my point, in your example, one person was injured. In mine, fifteen people were killed, more than 160 were injured, and more than 150 buildings were damaged or destroyed. An investigation blamed the disaster on company officials' failure to take basic steps regarding safe storage of the chemicals in its stockpile, as well as inadequate federal, state and local regulations regarding the handling of hazardous materials.
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Old 11-16-2014, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,782 posts, read 17,352,042 times
Reputation: 7990
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCobb View Post
Lily, I'm not a Europhile. Living in Europe was not a dream of mine. I moved for work. Now that I'm here I do see there are a lot of things Americans could benefit from emulating. We used to have crap coffee, bread, beer, etc. but we decided to take a page from the old world and upped our game. We could do so in other ways as well - mainly urban planning. The use is space is just flat out better. Why can't we have nicely laid out walkable, bikable convenient suburbs too?
Who gives a rat's rear about coffee, beer, and bread? All three are bad for you. In Seattle last week a popular sandwich shop unexpectedly closed. It was hipster heaven, and reportedly there was usually a line around the block. It closed (for reasons that are still unclear) and there was a huge outcry and uproar. I don't get it. It's a sandwich shop.

Food to me is just fuel. I buy according to cost and health. Plus as Don Quixote said, hunger is the best sauce. If you engage in some endurance exercise such as distance running, soccer, rowing, etc, canned chicken soup after a workout will taste like a delicacy.

I agree w/ you on walkability, but you can find neighborhoods like that in the US if you look. I live in one. There is a mall, grocery stores, drugs stores, etc. within a 5 minute walk. I walk everywhere, to dentist, doctor, barber, etc. I only drive to go to work. It is walk-friendly here, but also car-friendly. It's not bicycle-friendly, but then it rains here almost every day from Oct to May, so I'm not sure that matters. The city of Seattle has been trying to become more bike-friendly, mostly with dismal results.
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Old 11-16-2014, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,782 posts, read 17,352,042 times
Reputation: 7990
Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
The European dream: stay with mommy and daddy into your 30's and 40's.

The dependent generation: half young European adults live with their parents | Society | The Guardian

None of the pro-Euro posters responded to this. I wonder why not? America has serious issues, but I'll take the American dream over the European dream in a heartbeat.
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Old 11-16-2014, 01:54 PM
 
25,021 posts, read 27,919,738 times
Reputation: 11790
Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
None of the pro-Euro posters responded to this. I wonder why not? America has serious issues, but I'll take the American dream over the European dream in a heartbeat.

Because living on your own is really an American phenomenon.
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Old 11-16-2014, 02:10 PM
 
20,524 posts, read 15,895,818 times
Reputation: 5948
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chance and Change View Post
Actually, whites utilize benefits at a rate of 4:1 and in some areas it averages 7:1 whites for every one black or Hispanic that gets benefits.
but you won't see this highly publicized, but that is the reality spectrum.
Uh; there are 6 anglo white people to every "Hispanic" or Black person. So the 4 to 1 thing is still LESS white people out of 100 using those benefits. Too; us whites are usually older out of 100 and many employers WON'T hire people much above 55 or so.
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Old 11-16-2014, 02:18 PM
 
Location: Old Bellevue, WA
18,782 posts, read 17,352,042 times
Reputation: 7990
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
Because living on your own is really an American phenomenon.
This may be true to some extent, but I think it's more of an economic phenomenon than cultural. Look at the link and you will see that this is true.

The dependent generation: half young European adults live with their parents | Society | The Guardian
Quote:
"It's not only the world of work that has changed but society is changing, so the transitions are becoming much more unpredictable; people are not having a job for life or live in one place for life."
She said it was a myth that living with children and parents in a multi-generational household was all "happy clappy": "Really we see that multi-generational households have very low life satisfaction and a very high level of deprivation and perceived social exclusion.
As the US has inched closer to the Euro model of big, centralized gov't, the phenomenon has come to these shores as well.
Big jump in number of millennials living with parents reported - LA Times

As high taxes and heavy regulation choke economic opportunity, it becomes ever more difficult for young people to get a foothold on the career ladder, so they end up living in mom's basement into their 20's and 30's.
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Old 11-16-2014, 02:39 PM
 
Location: OC/LA
3,830 posts, read 4,661,125 times
Reputation: 2214
Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz View Post
None of the pro-Euro posters responded to this. I wonder why not? America has serious issues, but I'll take the American dream over the European dream in a heartbeat.
You think this isn't happening in the US?
A Rising Share of Young Adults Live in Their Parents
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