"Hands Up, Don't Shoot" . . . "Pants Up, Don't Loot" (soldiers, regular)

[Calvert Hall '62]

Originally Posted by FrankMiller

If you're going to maintain a permanent lower class, expect social unrest. That's a formula that's been tried and tested for thousands of years.

In addition to the trillions spent on the war on poverty, we've seen the past 50 yrs. passage of the Civil Rights act, accompanying social engineering affirmative action regulations, and society walking on eggshells to avoid offending certain "protected" groups. What I fail to understand is why this "social unrest" in the form of crime, STD, and out of wedlock single-parent rates is much worse today than during Jim Crow and the blatant oppression that existed then.

And I wonder if this formula of adding illegal aliens will increase the permanent lower class.

Furthermore, just read this weekend that a substantial percentage of the recently unemployed don't want to work. They're apparently content with their unemployment money and food stamps; they have food in their tummies, gas in their cars, and an assortment of electronic toys and gadgets.

Young People Jobs: Many Young Americans Don't Want Jobs

[Caesarstl]

Originally Posted by mapmd

Structural racism? You've been reading too many über left sociology textbooks. If anything most racism in the US is now directed against whites, and I'll also state that sexism is mostly directed against males.

Anyone who has a brain (regardless of race: white, black, asian, etc) sees Michael Brown for what he is: A lowlife Thug who robbed a convenience store just minutes before he had to be put down. Oh, hold on a minute let me shed a tear here...

If the residents of Ferguson want to riot then let them. It's been a long time since 1992 and the Millennials need to see what the AA community is capable of let them destroy their own neighborhoods and their own businesses. Responsible citizens and business owners will just have more incentive to leave...taking their savings and the jobs they've created along with them.

The community of Ferguson (as well as agitators from all over) see neither the actions of Brown nor the police officer nor the context the events took place in. Nope, they only see themselves as on a team with one skin color rioting against another team wearing a different uniform. Actions? No, it's not even about that with these people. Uniforms? Yeah that's what it's become.

Quoted for hilariousness...

Actually, most of your post is pretty messed-up...

[FrankMiller]

Originally Posted by Calvert Hall '62

In addition to the trillions spent on the war on poverty, we've seen the past 50 yrs. passage of the Civil Rights act, accompanying social engineering affirmative action regulations, and society walking on eggshells to avoid offending certain "protected" groups. What I fail to understand is why this "social unrest" in the form of crime, STD, and out of wedlock single-parent rates is much worse today than during Jim Crow and the blatant oppression that existed then.

Crime is down dramatically, and STD rates and single-parent rates are trends that exist across society unrelated to poverty. You seem to be under the impression that things are worse now than they've ever been, and I don't think that idea is supported at all. Things are much better now than they were a hundred years ago, overall; they just aren't better enough. And the Ferguson "riots" pale in comparison to the riots of yesteryear, perhaps partly because things are so much better now.

[Calvert Hall '62]

Originally Posted by FrankMiller

Crime is down dramatically, and STD rates and single-parent rates are trends that exist across society unrelated to poverty. You seem to be under the impression that things are worse now than they've ever been, and I don't think that idea is supported at all. Things are much better now than they were a hundred years ago, overall; they just aren't better enough. And the Ferguson "riots" pale in comparison to the riots of yesteryear, perhaps partly because things are so much better now.

I know that street crime, STD, and OOW are far worse now than during the Jim Crow era that I personally lived thru.

[FrankMiller]

Originally Posted by Calvert Hall '62

I know that street crime, STD, and OOW are far worse now than during the Jim Crow era that I personally lived thru.

There are many statistics showing that as STD and OOW rates have gone up, crime has gone down significantly, and is much lower than in the 50s. There's no argument that street crime is better now than at pretty much any point in history. And if you want to break the OOW-cycle, you should be investing heavily in anti-poverty measures, or at least anti-ghetto measures. Unless you're a racist who believes blacks are just inherently shiftless and unfaithful people, I guess; then it would make perfect sense not to throw good money after bad.

[Calvert Hall '62]

Originally Posted by FrankMiller

There are many statistics showing that as STD and OOW rates have gone up, crime has gone down significantly, and is much lower than in the 50s. There's no argument that street crime is better now than at pretty much any point in history. And if you want to break the OOW-cycle, you should be investing heavily in anti-poverty measures, or at least anti-ghetto measures. Unless you're a racist who believes blacks are just inherently shiftless and unfaithful people, I guess; then it would make perfect sense not to throw good money after bad.

I want to see data showing that black street crime in the 50s was higher than today. Recall, e.g., in the entire State of Md. there were something like 105 murders in 1960, the lion's share was probably the congested city of Baltimore's which had just under 1 million people. Today B'mo has 600+ thousand and murders are more than double the amt. in the entire State back then. In 1960, you could walk all over the city in reasonable safety. Try it today. In fact, try it in damn near any big city.

The racists are the white and black liberals who call Ben Carson MD, Thomas Sowell PhD, Walter Williams PhD, Herman Cain et al "Uncle Toms" and "sell outs" for refusing to toe the line and live on the left's victim plantation of self-pity and anger.

[marigolds6]

Originally Posted by mapmd

If the residents of Ferguson want to riot then let them....

The community of Ferguson (as well as agitators from all over) see neither the actions of Brown nor the police officer nor the context the events took place in....

As I have said before...
Ferguson is a strongly middle class community. The protesters represent easily less than 1% of residents, and even when you include non-residents their numbers are still less than 5% of the entire town's population.
And compared to the region that Ferguson sits in, they number less than 0.01% of the region.
Even the residents of the complex where Brown was killed, almost uniformly poor black people, are not taking part in the protests. They are almost all hunkering down in their apartments, scared of what is coming and asking the police for help to protect them.

[FrankMiller]

Originally Posted by Calvert Hall '62

I want to see data showing that black street crime in the 50s was higher than today. Recall, e.g., in the entire State of Md. there were something like 105 murders in 1960, the lion's share was probably the congested city of Baltimore's which had just under 1 million people. Today B'mo has 600+ thousand and murders are more than double the amt. in the entire State back then. In 1960, you could walk all over the city in reasonable safety. Try it today. In fact, try it in damn near any big city.

The racists are the white and black liberals who call Ben Carson MD, Thomas Sowell PhD, Walter Williams PhD, Herman Cain et al "Uncle Toms" and "sell outs" for refusing to toe the line and live on the left's victim plantation of self-pity and anger.

The US had 5.1 murders per 100k in 1960, and 4.5 per 100k in 2013.

Regardless, the majority of crime today is on the backs of the people who insist on breeding generations in communities of poverty and crime, who have few opportunities outside of crime, and then whine about how many criminals there are. It's not exactly rocket science, but some people are so wrapped up in their blue collar persecution complex that they can't see any social issue except through the lens of "it's somebody else's fault". If there's a silver lining to this ongoing recession, it's that it's raising a generation of people who understand that bad things happen to good people, and that we need a strong social safety net to protect people and provide opportunities.

[modernist1]

One of the problems is that the perception of 'self-improvement' (an irritating phrase I know) is seen as being a 'sell-out', an Uncle Tom, in much of the black community. No one is expecting anyone to aspire to the sort of Anglicized diction MLK used fifty years ago. But class based vernacular and syntax, maybe all right on the corner, won't get you very far elsewhere. There's been talk here of more money being put into welfare, but dependency on the state has been tried. It seems to have locked many in to a condition and expectation of dependency. The Right, who I find fault with in many ways, have a point, when they observe that a hand up can often be a euphemism for a patronizing lower leveling of expectations. Many black people may well continue to be oppressed by the man, but to remain dependent on his handouts is a recipe for resentment, dependency, and self-loathing. Until many can throw off that sense of victimhood, not much will change. Petulance is a poor substitute for ambition.

[FrankMiller]

Originally Posted by modernist1

One of the problems is that the perception of 'self-improvement' (an irritating phrase I know) is seen as being a 'sell-out', an Uncle Tom, in much of the black community. No one is expecting anyone to aspire to the sort of Anglicized diction MLK used fifty years ago. But class based vernacular and syntax might be all right on the corner (never mind 'Ebonics') nevertheless it won't get you very far elsewhere. There's been talk here of more money being put into welfare, but dependency on the state has been tried. It seems to have locked many in to a condition and expectation of dependency. The Right, who I find fault with in many ways, have a point, when they observe that a hand up can often be a euphemism for a patronizing lower leveling of expectations. Many black people may well continue to be oppressed by the man, but to remain dependent on his handouts is a recipe for resentment, dependency, and self-loathing. Until many can throw off that sense of victimhood, not much will change. Petulance is a poor substitute for ambition.

In every case where welfare sufficient to feed and shelter people has been tried, it has worked remarkably well (see Salt Lake City's recent "give homes to the homeless" initiative). There's just no desire to expand it.

The notion that there's anything to the idea that a hand up is bad is complete *******s. Statistically, if you are born poor you will probably die poor, regardless of race or creed. That alone should prove that there's more to escaping poverty than "ambition" or "effort". The idea that blacks would succeed just as much as whites if only they would "stop claiming victimhood" is just ignorance or racism. It's a disgusting justification of not raising your own taxes to provide for people who can't provide for themselves by saying "well, they'd just waste it on booze or something because they're culturally incapable of success". If you think the way to go is to provide a job guarantee rather than welfare checks, then fine. But if you're throwing your hands up and saying "there's nothing to be done!" then you're just another racist.

It's not just a white-on-black thing, either. The English were saying the same thing about the Irish a couple hundred years ago. It's an immortal tried-and-true formula to construct a society where the "others" have little chance to get ahead, and then nod sagely and say "they just don't have ambition, there's nothing we can do for them." When I was younger I used to buy some of these same racist arguments, until I learned history and realized the same arguments had been applied over and over and disproven over and over; it's just oppressors justifying their oppression to themselves, and it's always and eternally wrong.

There's nothing wrong with black people (except what's being done to them).