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Old 11-21-2014, 05:45 AM
 
Location: Great State of Texas
86,052 posts, read 84,288,091 times
Reputation: 27718

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TreeBeard View Post
It actually depends on his successor, does it not? The next President can reverse the Order or enforce deportation after the reprieve. I would not hold my breath though because regardless of which party is in power and despite all the huffing and puffing by the Republicans, neither party will take any action and will let Pres. Obama's action stand all for political reasons obviously.
There is no way we have a static 11 million illegals here for 10 years.
It's more like 20-30 million. And you're right, none of them will be deported and sent home.

Heck, even the criminals who have been deported multiple times have come back.
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Old 11-21-2014, 05:46 AM
 
13,673 posts, read 8,971,137 times
Reputation: 10385
The problem for many herein, is that they violated a rule by Napoleon who noted that often the opposing general on the field would 'form a picture' in their mind of what they expected Napoleon to do, or how they expected the battle to evolve. By 'forming a picture' their plan of action became 'set', while Napoleon prided himself on reacting to circumstances as they evolved, and taking advantage of weaknesses exposed by the enemy.

So we have here. For several weeks we have had many (politicians and posters herein) tell us what they 'expect' out of President Obama's speech. Even the actual speech did not change the mind of those who became committed to the picture formed in their mind.

What did Obama propose last night?

1. Additional resources to improve border security and to speed up the deportation process.

2. Improve the process for the highly skilled immigrants to come to this country (something that Silicon Valley wants).

3. In Obama's word: "If you’ve with been in America more than five years. If you have children who are American citizens or illegal residents. If you register, pass a criminal background check and you’re willing to pay your fair share of taxes, you’ll be able to apply to stay in this country temporarily without fear of deportation."


He then said: "This deal does not apply to anyone who has come to this country recently. It does not apply to anyone who might come to America illegally in the future. It does not grant citizenship or the right to stay here permanently, or offer the same benefits that citizens receive. Only Congress can do that. All we’re saying is we’re not going to deport you."

Now, that seems much more lukewarm than what politicians and posters herein have been claiming he was going to do. Yet, that does not make any difference to those that have 'formed a picture'. They are frozen in their prior perception of what they imagined he was going to do.

For some reason, in the past few days I have read of those who claim that Senator Reid refused to allow an immigration bill to be put to a vote. Why they would make such a claim is unclear:

Immigration reform bill 2013: Senate passes legislation 68-32 - POLITICO.com

It was actually Mr. Boehner who refused to consider the Senate bill:

John Boehner: No House vote on Senate immigration bill - Ginger Gibson - POLITICO.com


Yet, no doubt, we will have posters keep harping on how it was the Senate that blocked passage, or even consideration, of the bill.

It is not logical.

Anyway, more details of the EO will be made clear today. I have not formed a picture. The devil is in the details, and perhaps said details will cause me to change my mind from its current position: that the speech last night seem reasonable with reasonable actions.
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Old 11-21-2014, 05:50 AM
 
7,800 posts, read 4,381,475 times
Reputation: 9438
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyTexan View Post
There is no way we have a static 11 million illegals here for 10 years.
It's more like 20-30 million. And you're right, none of them will be deported and sent home.

Heck, even the criminals who have been deported multiple times have come back.
I'm with you. Our immigration laws are way out of whack. Action is needed but both parties put their political ande economic interests above what is good for the country. It is just the way it is until we have all just had enough.
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Old 11-21-2014, 05:51 AM
 
Location: Florida
77,013 posts, read 47,448,627 times
Reputation: 14806
Quote:
Originally Posted by legalsea View Post
He then said: "This deal does not apply to anyone who has come to this country recently. It does not apply to anyone who might come to America illegally in the future. It does not grant citizenship or the right to stay here permanently, or offer the same benefits that citizens receive. Only Congress can do that. All we’re saying is we’re not going to deport you."

Now, that seems much more lukewarm than what politicians and posters herein have been claiming he was going to do. Yet, that does not make any difference to those that have 'formed a picture'. They are frozen in their prior perception of what they imagined he was going to do.
Right

Quote:

For some reason, in the past few days I have read of those who claim that Senator Reid refused to allow an immigration bill to be put to a vote. Why they would make such a claim is unclear:

Immigration reform bill 2013: Senate passes legislation 68-32 - POLITICO.com

It was actually Mr. Boehner who refused to consider the Senate bill:

John Boehner: No House vote on Senate immigration bill - Ginger Gibson - POLITICO.com
I think most people know it was Boehner. I think this whole thing from Obama was a bluff to force House to vote on that bill, but the bluff failed.
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Old 11-21-2014, 05:52 AM
 
Location: Somewhere in USA
658 posts, read 721,211 times
Reputation: 571
I am so fed up with this non-sense. We don't need a president like this in the USA. Such a hypocrite moron. So the United States Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) has policies and procedures which dictates sponsorships programs of certain type of relatives to be called for upon visa availability; some have to wait more than ten years. Here, our president is honoring citizenships to illegal immigrants who crossed the border which we can't protect and encouraging more and more of them coming into this "USED TO BE A BELOVED COUNTRY". God I just don't know what to say anymore...
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Old 11-21-2014, 06:00 AM
 
Location: Meggett, SC
11,011 posts, read 10,989,726 times
Reputation: 6191
Quote:
Originally Posted by legalsea View Post
The problem for many herein, is that they violated a rule by Napoleon who noted that often the opposing general on the field would 'form a picture' in their mind of what they expected Napoleon to do, or how they expected the battle to evolve. By 'forming a picture' their plan of action became 'set', while Napoleon prided himself on reacting to circumstances as they evolved, and taking advantage of weaknesses exposed by the enemy.

So we have here. For several weeks we have had many (politicians and posters herein) tell us what they 'expect' out of President Obama's speech. Even the actual speech did not change the mind of those who became committed to the picture formed in their mind.

What did Obama propose last night?

1. Additional resources to improve border security and to speed up the deportation process.

2. Improve the process for the highly skilled immigrants to come to this country (something that Silicon Valley wants).

3. In Obama's word: "If you’ve with been in America more than five years. If you have children who are American citizens or illegal residents. If you register, pass a criminal background check and you’re willing to pay your fair share of taxes, you’ll be able to apply to stay in this country temporarily without fear of deportation."


He then said: "This deal does not apply to anyone who has come to this country recently. It does not apply to anyone who might come to America illegally in the future. It does not grant citizenship or the right to stay here permanently, or offer the same benefits that citizens receive. Only Congress can do that. All we’re saying is we’re not going to deport you."

Now, that seems much more lukewarm than what politicians and posters herein have been claiming he was going to do. Yet, that does not make any difference to those that have 'formed a picture'. They are frozen in their prior perception of what they imagined he was going to do.

For some reason, in the past few days I have read of those who claim that Senator Reid refused to allow an immigration bill to be put to a vote. Why they would make such a claim is unclear:

Immigration reform bill 2013: Senate passes legislation 68-32 - POLITICO.com

It was actually Mr. Boehner who refused to consider the Senate bill:

John Boehner: No House vote on Senate immigration bill - Ginger Gibson - POLITICO.com


Yet, no doubt, we will have posters keep harping on how it was the Senate that blocked passage, or even consideration, of the bill.

It is not logical.

Anyway, more details of the EO will be made clear today. I have not formed a picture. The devil is in the details, and perhaps said details will cause me to change my mind from its current position: that the speech last night seem reasonable with reasonable actions.
The Senate bill will not be addressed in the House because they have made clear they are not willing to pass a bill that includes a pathway to citizenship. So that bill was DOA before it was even voted on. The House wants greater enforcement before they take up the question of any kind of amnesty. It's really neither here nor there though because amnesty has been tried again and again with the same results - no actual solution to illegal immigration. Calling it a comprehensive immigration reform bill is a misnomer. It reforms nothing. It's just another amnesty bill.

As it stands now, illegal immigrants simply must wait around a few years for the next amnesty bill to pass and they're in the clear. It's a cycle of stupidity. We need to genuinely enforce things like e-verify to have any lasting impact. We need to revisit the 14th amendment which, while appropriate at the time it was ratified, has caused more problems in today's world. I've always thought the criteria should be if one parent is a citizen, then the resulting child is a citizen. That makes more sense in today's global world. At this point, all of the proposed legislation is nothing more than incremental steps of an already failed policy.
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Old 11-21-2014, 06:01 AM
 
Location: Meggett, SC
11,011 posts, read 10,989,726 times
Reputation: 6191
Quote:
Originally Posted by TreeBeard View Post
I'm with you. Our immigration laws are way out of whack. Action is needed but both parties put their political ande economic interests above what is good for the country. It is just the way it is until we have all just had enough.
How are they out of whack? Explain what exactly is wrong with the current legal immigration laws?
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Old 11-21-2014, 06:06 AM
 
13,673 posts, read 8,971,137 times
Reputation: 10385
For those interested, here is the Senate bill of 2013:

Bill Summary & Status - 113th Congress (2013 - 2014) - S.744 - All Information - THOMAS (Library of Congress)&

And a nice summary of the various points:


Summary & Analysis: The Senate Bill (S. 744) - National Immigration Law Center
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Old 11-21-2014, 06:22 AM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
39,030 posts, read 27,438,416 times
Reputation: 15946
You don't have an entitlement to be here, period


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24cW6nHddeA
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Old 11-21-2014, 06:42 AM
 
Location: Tampa Florida
22,229 posts, read 17,814,789 times
Reputation: 4585
The difference between Obama and the GOP is simply, Obama actually HAS an Immigration Policy.
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