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Old 12-14-2014, 07:20 PM
 
33,387 posts, read 34,656,821 times
Reputation: 20027

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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagogeorge View Post
We use a hell of a lot more fossil fuels today than we did back in the 1970's and our air and water is much cleaner today
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated View Post
.....LOL. Is it cleaner than it would be with renewable sources?
in fact yes. did you really think that renewables are cleaner than fuel made from crude oil? if so then you are really naive.

Quote:
Cough cough! (I have asthma.... neanderthals did not. Coincidence?)
considering the fact that they got far more exercise on a daily basis than we do might be relative dont you think?

Quote:
Originally Posted by weltschmerz View Post
And why do you suppose that is?
Why it's the dreaded EPA!
as we have said many times before, the EPA has its place. but when an agency like the EPA begins to overreach its boundaries, it needs to be reigned in.
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Old 12-14-2014, 07:22 PM
 
Location: Palo Alto
12,149 posts, read 8,381,289 times
Reputation: 4190
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated View Post
.....why the hell are people celebrating the consumption of more fossil fuels?

I like my air and water clean, thanks.
Do you own a car? Heat your home?
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Old 12-14-2014, 07:24 PM
 
Location: Montreal, Quebec
15,082 posts, read 14,260,017 times
Reputation: 9789
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
in fact yes. did you really think that renewables are cleaner than fuel made from crude oil? if so then you are really naive.



considering the fact that they got far more exercise on a daily basis than we do might be relative dont you think?



as we have said many times before, the EPA has its place. but when an agency like the EPA begins to overreach its boundaries, it needs to be reigned in.
Yep. Just about all our power comes from Hydroelectricity.
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Old 12-14-2014, 07:27 PM
 
29,405 posts, read 19,492,383 times
Reputation: 4500
^^

Not everyone lives next to raging rivers and cascading waterfalls.....


Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated View Post


.....LOL. Is it cleaner than it would be with renewable sources?

Cough cough!

Do you think we have enough renewable sources of energy at an affordable rates to sustain our economy

Cough cough!


Quote:
A more fundamental challenge is that renewable generators also impose costs on the wider electricity grid. The best sites are often far from big cities (on Scottish hillsides, French lakes or American deserts) which makes them expensive to connect. Many common types of renewable generators only produce power intermittently—when the sun shines or when the wind blows. Wind turbines, for example, spin only about a third of the time. That means countries which have a lot of renewable generation must still pay to maintain traditional kinds of power stations ready to fire up when demand peaks. And energy from these stations also becomes more expensive because they may not run at full-blast.

The high cost of renewable generators obstructs efforts to tackle climate change, even when governments dig deep to fund them. One danger is that sharp rises in energy prices will drive manufacturers to set up in less “green” countries, which might mean citizens end up consuming more carbon, through imports. Another worry is that governments will end up extending the life of dirty coal plants to serve as back-up when renewable generation is low—or when over-ambitious renewable roll-outs run out of steam. But for now the main consequence of high renewable costs is growing interest in controversial alternatives. The price of nuclear power has been rising for decades, but it still looks less expensive than many types of renewable generation. Gas-fired power stations are roughly half as polluting as coal-fired ones. Building more of them could provide a cheaper way for countries to cut emissions in the short term, and buy renewable operators time to bring their costs under control.
The Economist explains: Why is renewable energy so expensive? | The Economist


Quote:
(I have asthma.... neanderthals did not. Coincidence?)

You can go back to burning wood in a cave and see if you get asthma



Quote:
Originally Posted by weltschmerz View Post
And why do you suppose that is?
Why it's the dreaded EPA!


There is such a thing as common sense regulations you know
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Old 12-14-2014, 07:39 PM
 
33,387 posts, read 34,656,821 times
Reputation: 20027
Quote:
Originally Posted by weltschmerz View Post
Yep. Just about all our power comes from Hydroelectricity.
which damages the environment in a variety of ways itself. nice try but ANY form of energy is going to be damaging to the environment. all those concrete dams that back up rivers, and harm fish flows. and then there is the mining operations required to get the necessary raw materials to build the generators that generate said electricity. and how about the need to lubricating oils so the generators can properly spin on their bearings for long periods of time? and what about the loss of farmland downstream of the dams?

no my friend, green energy isnt as green as you would like to believe it to be.
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Old 12-14-2014, 07:41 PM
 
Location: Montreal, Quebec
15,082 posts, read 14,260,017 times
Reputation: 9789
Quote:

Not everyone lives next to raging rivers and cascading waterfalls.....
What on earth are you talking about? You don't have to live next to a raging river or cascading waterfalls.
Do you not know how Hydro works?
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Old 12-14-2014, 07:43 PM
 
Location: Montreal, Quebec
15,082 posts, read 14,260,017 times
Reputation: 9789
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbohm View Post
which damages the environment in a variety of ways itself. nice try but ANY form of energy is going to be damaging to the environment. all those concrete dams that back up rivers, and harm fish flows. and then there is the mining operations required to get the necessary raw materials to build the generators that generate said electricity. and how about the need to lubricating oils so the generators can properly spin on their bearings for long periods of time? and what about the loss of farmland downstream of the dams?

no my friend, green energy isnt as green as you would like to believe it to be.
Umm, the post I addresssed was about not using fossil fuels.
It's not absolutely perfect, but it sure as hell beats coal fired power plants and oil.
Nothing is 100% green.
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Old 12-14-2014, 07:48 PM
 
Location: Houston
26,979 posts, read 15,802,778 times
Reputation: 11259
Quote:
Originally Posted by Opin_Yunated View Post
.....why the hell are people celebrating the consumption of more fossil fuels?

I like my air and water clean, thanks.
I live in a suburb of Houston, Tx. and I have no problem with either the air I breathe or the water I drink.
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Old 12-14-2014, 07:50 PM
 
Location: Montreal, Quebec
15,082 posts, read 14,260,017 times
Reputation: 9789
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapperJohn View Post
Do you own a car? Heat your home?
Oh, good lord! Not this again.
Yes, we should all live in caves, heat with dung and wear hemp underpants.
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Old 12-14-2014, 07:51 PM
 
29,405 posts, read 19,492,383 times
Reputation: 4500
Quote:
Originally Posted by weltschmerz View Post
What on earth are you talking about? You don't have to live next to a raging river or cascading waterfalls.
Do you not know how Hydro works?
Actually yes I do.






Quote:
Hydroelectric power generation resources are spread unevenly across North America. Some regions, like the Pacific Northwest, generate a significant amount of their electricity from hydro, while others have only limited hydro resources available
Hydroelectric power resources form regional clusters - Today in Energy - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

I wonder why mountainous regions out west (and in the Appalachian east) have hydro electric energy and most of the center of the US doesn't
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