Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-22-2014, 10:58 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,018 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13710

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by 70Ford View Post
Is it their backyard or is it a public space that taxpayers are sinking 100 million dollars into.
What typically legally happens in that scenario is that the private property owner stops acquiring oceanward land by accretion at the point of publicly funded beach nourishment/augmentation, and their property line ends at the point of public improvement instead of continuing to accrete towards the mean high water mark line. Therefore, any subsequent accreted beach belongs to the public and not the private property owner. The public gains from publicly funded beach nourishment/protection projects, not the private property owner.

For example... Accretions of sand add land ownership to privately titled owners as the MHW Mark moves seaward. However, under North Carolina law, the title to any addition to the portion of the ocean beach seaward of the MHW Mark which is caused by a publicly funded beach nourishment project vests in the State of North Carolina, as is any subsequent natural accretion.
§ 146-6(f).http://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapter_146/GS_146-6.html

Most ocean states have similar laws.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-22-2014, 10:59 AM
 
14,917 posts, read 13,101,264 times
Reputation: 4828
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Typically, the only part that is truly public is the wet sand beach area up to the mean high water line.
Not in New Jersey.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-22-2014, 11:03 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,018 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13710
Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33 View Post
Not in New Jersey.
There is still the legal liability issue of a public use easement on privately owned property. I posted the NY Times article discussing exactly such. It's a big problem for the private property owner.

The problem lies with the dysfunctional local, state, or federal governments which failed to have the foresight to provide publicly owned access points to public beach areas, not with the private property owner trying to protect their legal property rights.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-22-2014, 11:06 AM
 
14,917 posts, read 13,101,264 times
Reputation: 4828
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
There is still the legal liability issue of a public use easement on privately owned property. I posted the NY Times article discussing exactly such. It's a big problem for the private property owner.

The problem lies with the dysfunctional local, state, or federal governments which failed to have the foresight to provide publicly owned access points to public beach areas, not with the private property owner trying to protect their legal property rights.
If you want to avoid that issue, don't buy land abutting a public beach.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-22-2014, 11:11 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,018 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13710
Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33 View Post
If you want to avoid that issue, don't buy land abutting a public beach.
Makes no sense. How is that any different than a landowner buying land abutting a public park? Does that mean the public can just trespass through his privately owned yard to get to the public park? No, it doesn't. There are publicly owned entrances provided to public parks. Likewise, there are publicly owned beach access points to public beaches. Private property owners are under no obligation to provide public access across their land.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-22-2014, 11:15 AM
 
14,917 posts, read 13,101,264 times
Reputation: 4828
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Makes no sense. How is that any different than a landowner buying land abutting a public park? Does that mean the public can just trespass through his privately owned yard to get to the public park? No, it doesn't. There are publicly owned entrances provided to public parks. Likewise, there are publicly owned beach access points to public beaches. Private property owners are under no obligation to provide public access across their land.
Fine - instead of condemning an easement across the land, condemn the public access path entirely.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-22-2014, 11:25 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,018 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13710
Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33 View Post
Fine - instead of condemning an easement across the land, condemn the public access path entirely.
Won't be so easy to do. Taking private property like that is unconstitutional.

Quote:
"The difficult cases are generally those where government regulations, enacted to secure some sort of public benefit, fall disproportionately on some property owners and cause significant dimunition of property value."
The Fifth Amendment and Takings of Private Property

Not a good idea to erode private property rights under any circumstances. ...Unless one is a communist.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-22-2014, 11:33 AM
 
14,917 posts, read 13,101,264 times
Reputation: 4828
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Won't be so easy to do. Taking private property like that is unconstitutional.
No it's not - as long as they are justly compensated.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-22-2014, 11:49 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,018 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13710
Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33 View Post
No it's not - as long as they are justly compensated.
SCOTUS cases don't always go that way. The determining factor seems to be if some property owners are more adversely affected than others. Unless the local, state, or federal government plans on declaring public access on every private oceanfront property owner's land in the locale under question, it won't be a slam dunk case.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-22-2014, 11:55 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,018 posts, read 44,824,472 times
Reputation: 13710
Hypothetical... You own property abutting a state road. Should your neighbor who lives behind you have the right to drive his car through your privately owned yard to get to the state road merely because your land abuts the publicly owned state road?

How many of you would say yes to that?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:23 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top