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It's a misrepresentation to claim that the Big Bang Theory says that something came from nothing, and it's a huge leap to claim that therefore there must be creator, and then further claim this creator records every thought and action every human ever took and judges them on their deathbed as to whether they truly believe in a holy book.
Agreed. It's decidedly a two-way street. Everyone should just enjoy and take comfort in their beliefs or lack thereof and leave it at that. However, lest it got past you, that's not the post I responded to.
I dunno. Some of us *enjoy* these discussions. I assume that anyone who broaches the subject on a public forum is looking for a discussion, and understands that s/he is inviting both people who are sympathetic and people who are not sympathetic to weigh in. That is certainly my understanding when I start a thread on any public forum.
So here you are, in a public forum, responding to a thread that is deliberately provocative - and contending that "Everyone should just enjoy and take comfort in their beliefs or lack thereof and leave it at that." Clearly, the person who started the thread didn't want to "leave it at that", and equally clearly, the people responding also don't want to "leave it at that".
If you truly want to just "leave it at that", why are you posting along with the rest of us? Really and truly, I don't get it.
When I want to "leave (topic x) at that", I don't post. Anything.
It's a misrepresentation to claim that the Big Bang Theory says that something came from nothing, and it's a huge leap to claim that therefore there must be creator, and then further claim this creator records every thought and action every human ever took and judges them on their deathbed as to whether they truly believe in a holy book.
That would be, "leap of faith" and for those of us who have it, it isn't.
That would be, "leap of faith" and for those of us who have it, it isn't.
There you have it - a leap of faith - not based on reason, logic, or evidence. You are free to have your religious beliefs just don't demand that the state endorse or support them. The OP started with the false claim (a lie - an abomination to God) that atheists want to ban private religious displays. Not true.
I'm an atheist and I find myself increasingly annoyed by people who purport to think they know the exact same amount of information as me or who claim to have put the same amount of thought into why I believe what I believe, only to then ask me a question rooted in fundamental ignorance of how stuff works.
When someone asks me "So, you just think that something came from nothing and an explosion caused a perfectly ordered universe?" I become aggravated very quickly because it disregards so much of what we, as a human race, know about the universe. It is like asking "So you think all the presents just appeared under the tree by pure randomness with no reindeer, no Santa, and no elves?" These assumptions exclude any other working knowledge of the larger picture, of the world around us, and preclude that it's either Santa or... or... or... impossibleness.
So, yes, when you tell me you want to put up a Ten Commandments statue outside a courthouse because of a few lines in a two-thousand year old book, and that you want public opinion swayed by such absurdities, then I do take issue with that. When you say you want to teach schoolchildren the Earth is 6000 years old because you added up the number of "begats" in the Bible, I don't believe I should even acknowledge or respect that as a respectable position much less one of anything but utter stupidity.
This is not about the imaginary and fabled Christian persecution complex believers have conjured up in their heads. It is about no longer allowing such stupidity and ignorance to illegally infiltrate and shape public policy or the government.
Quite so, and I don't. It would be futile. As a general rule I ignore them to include one of my sons-in-law who is constantly on Facebook railing against people of faith of which I'm one. In that case I also pray for him, my daughter and my grandchildren.
Cool. I'm sure he & others aren't interested in hearing your preaching, it's best to ignore him.
The very act of atheism is an act of idiocy. To be so certain about things which are unknowable is a perfect description of a fool. Same with the religious fundamentalists like in Islam, Christianity, Judaism, etc.
May as well argue that the sky is really green, too, or that pigs secretly fly when no one is watching.
What those without faith are incapable of grasping is that another's faith cannot be argued. It just is!
Brain-washing and indoctrination is not "faith."
"Faith" doesn't need to be institutionalized to survive.
Question: If Emperor Constantine does not issue the edicts, would you be Christian?
Answer: No, you wouldn't.
Question: If Emperor Theodorus does not issue the edict in 382 outlawing all beliefs except Christianity, would you be Christian?
Answer: No, you wouldn't.
Question: If Emperor Justinian does not grant John the Bishop of Rome the authority to prosecute "heretics" in 533, would you be Christian?
Answer: No, you wouldn't.
Question: If the Imperial Roman Catholic Church does not brutally control every facet of politics, economics and society for the next 1,300 years murdering more than 1 Billion people in cold blood, until Napoleon destroys the Holy Roman Empire and imprisons the Pope, would you be Christian?
Answer: No, you wouldn't.
Isn't that the whole reason behind school prayer?
Jesus tells you exactly how to pray in no uncertain terms.
Jesus condemns those who pray publicly as the hypocrites they truly are.
What then is the point of spitting in the face of Jesus and flipping him off by supporting school prayer?
To maintain Christianity as an institution, not as a faith.
Amesbury Nail Factory Co. v. Weed, 17 Mass. 53 (1820)
In spite of the 1st Amendment's prohibition on establishing religion or preventing the free exercise thereof, Massachusetts permitted taxation to support churches.
Amesbury argued that the nail factory had no soul and so the tax didn't apply. The court ruled that the factory benefits in the same way an individual benefits from any tax, and so the tax must be paid.
Goodell Mfg. Co. v. Trask, 28 Mass. (1831).
The argument here was that since none of the shareholders lived in the church parish, the company could not be taxed. The court ruled that "a corporation is an independent legal person" and subject to the tax
Those are two more examples of Christianity as an institution, and not a faith.
"Faith" does not need to tax others to support it.
That isn't the point of the article. You're welcome to "care less" [I think you meant that you "couldn't care less") as much as you want, if you wish.
As a basis for argument, which atheists love to bring on, especially on C-D, I think the article really nailed the conflict.
The ironic thing is atheists follow the teachings of Jesus Christ more than republicans do (and republicans claim to be religious.)
Republicans oppose helping the poor with welfare, food stamps, Sect 8, and free cell phones. Republicans oppose healing the sick by giving everyone health insurance. Republicans want a large and aggressive military. And republicans oppose the camel parable by handing the rich things like this.
Religion, any religion, doesn't belong in politics, government, or public schools. I feel strongly about this.
Exactly correct.
While the article in the OP was full of false presumptions and false argumentation, and the original poster has no idea of what the first law of energy is actually all about, none of it bothers me. There will always be those among us who are religious and those who are not.
The worst rants I've ever heard never come from atheists. They came from former deeply religious people who fell away from their faith. There is a huge difference from an atheist and a non-believer.
I don't give a hoot about anyone displaying any thing they want on their private property. I'm just as good with the folks who put up a Nativity scene as they man in Beverly Hills who painted all his classic Greek nude lawn statuary pink and gave them all black pubic hair. I would never do either, but that's just me.
I am a Christian, but my Christian God, by the doctrines of my faith, gave us all the power of self determination. He allows scientists to make new discoveries just as He allows monks to spend their lives in His service and praise. My God has plenty of room for all views in all of humanity.
My government, though, made sure my Constitution, the document that defines my homeland, is separate for all churches and religious beliefs. They were smart guys; they saw what becomes of a democracy when religion becomes a part of it- the democracy always fades as the theocracy takes over.
As I am a law abiding citizen, I will never build a Nativity scene in front of the county courthouse. The courthouse is a lesser temple of our democracy, just as my church is a lesser temple of my faith. I'm not about to do my praying in the courthouse either.
If others choose to do differently, that's their problem not mine, but no one will get away with trying to inject any religion into my government without a fight from me. Both have equal places in public life, but those places are completely different and must stay that way by our most fundamental law document.
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